Isbar thread

[gootziecat]

I like the smaller comb and wattles. My cockerels are well endowed at 6 months. Do you have any speculation what might have been mixed into your small combed/wattled birds to produce this? Having asked, do not read into this I plan to do the same.

 

[chambe94]

I don't think the smaller comb is necessarily from a cross. They look exactly like my other Isbars (including the old line) in every other way.

I DO think there may be some crossbred chicks coming out of GFF, but they are obviously crossbred (like the ones posted earlier). I have one and I wonder if her isn't mixed with a Russian Orloff (not sure if GFF had these), his hackles are very weird. He also has mottled legs

 

[Odelia]

Yes the first import had the tiny gene pool (maybe not as tiny as GFF claimed), but I think someone, somewhere has fiddled with 'enriching' that pool with something that was not Isbar with the new line. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I believe that with all my heart. Anyone else notice that since the aforementioned issues have arisen, GFF has dropped their Isbar price from $99 to $29? ...and Isbars are now packing peanuts?!? Something's up IMO.
Let me state quite clearly that I am not connected to Greenfire Farms. Still I find it quite distasteful the way people slander each other on the internet because of the element of anonymity. It is funny how you both found this price change on their site, but not the same price change on several other breeds that are not new releases. You outright say that they are selling a product that they know to be worthless. If that isn't libel then I don't know what is? This is a breed that was near extinction. No one should expect such a breed to be without issues. Personally I would rather have to select out undesirable traits then to have such a small gene pool that the breed is no longer viable.

Quote:

I am glad to see Isbars in this country also. Yes, it is expensive to import birds into this country (legally, anyway) and I wish to support them. I don't mind paying a price that supports legal imports, as long as the seller is very conscientious to ensure that the genetics are pure.

If your shipment was at all like mine there were several extra chicks shipped. Did you not get the chicks you paid for?

The majority of my new line Isbars look very similar to my original line and I look forward to working with them, even the cockerel with the small comb (the pullet has been sold).

You don't seem to think that they imported the wrong breed.

The 2 cockerels I pictured were received with an order of Isbars - only Isbars. They were not marked that they were something different. If I didn't know what Isbars are supposed to look like, like many new to the breed at this point, I may have just added them to the breeding pen and sold eggs or chicks as pure Isbar and the damage would perpetuate. This is no help in trying to preserve the breed..

The majority of my new line Isbars look very similar to my original line and I look forward to working with them, even the cockerel with the small comb (the pullet has been sold). These are a very thrifty breed that are awesome layers of beautiful eggs. I think one day you will see them a common offering. But we really don't need the mess that the Ameraucana breeders have with EE and Americanas being mistaken for purebred birds. Only with diligence can we ensure this doesn't happen to the Isbar.

Here are the pullet and the cockerel that I received with "funny combs". Notice the lack of wattles on the them. The third picture is a cockerel of about the same age for comparison.

Those look like Isbars to me. Granted they are cull birds for this breed, but they don't look like mutts. Anyone who does not know that these birds are not good breeding stock has no business breeding and selling chicks as purebred chicks. All breeds have chicks with undesirable and recessive traits. They have much larger and healthier populations to work with. I am saying that we all should stop and consider what we are saying without proof before we publish words that hurt others and their businesses. Does that mean I think Greenfire Farms does not have issues. No I would be quite happy to say what I think they are doing wrong.

Simply there are three area's where they are failing miserably and hurting their own reputation and costing themselves business.

1. They don't send a slip with the box of chicks clearly stating the quantity and breeds included inside the box. This isn't some exciting mystery for the recipient. We want to know exactly what the peanuts are when we receive them so we can decide what to do with them. They should also have photos of chicks for every breed on their site so that it would be easier to identify any mystery peanuts.

2. They send chicks as peanuts that should have been culled. When they are vaccinating or packing these chicks for shipment the person doing so should be quickly looking them over to see if there are health issues or breed issues and pulling out chicks that should be culled.

3. They don't communicate well. I understand that they have a small staff, but they would save so much confusion and having to repeatedly answer the same questions if they took the trouble to post information on their site and send e-mails to their client list. I shouldn't be the one pointing out that they have lowered the price on several of their breeds. They should have made an announcement themselves. It would have been a great opportunity to generate interest for new orders as we are going into spring soon. I also shouldn't be learning that they are discontinuing breeds on an auction site. This information should be on their own site and they should be telling their customer base that one of their products will be gone soon so that they have the opportunity to get some of the last chicks. They should also give more updates about upcoming breeds and when they will be released. Their site under new arrivals still have the Fifty Five Flowery Hens as to be released in the spring of 2014. What happened? Were they eaten by a bobcat? Will they be released next month? What is going on? Leaving people to speculate is never a good thing. Tell us what is happening.

I like that there is a Greenfire Farms out there. No one was doing much importing before they came along. If they are not careful they are going to lose their business model to someone else who has more of a business background. I hope that they can work out their kinks and bring many more exciting breeds of chickens.

 

[gimmie birdies]

I personally don't know if any of my isbars are from GFF, but I do think it is important to keep free speech in the BYC. I personally take pride in any bird I have including mutts. I currently have roo culls that I have not culled because I haven't yet decided who to keep. I know who I should keep, but I am on good terms with some of my culls. ... that being said I am not selling it is just for me.

 

[City farm]

Here is one of mine with it that I just sold. Now that it's -13°F I wish I hadn't

Here is one of mine with it that I just sold. Now that it's -13°F I wish I hadn't

I do see what you mean.. The photo on the top left looks like a jersey Giant. I did ask our family friend, where we got our 2 isbar's and we were told they are from the 1st generation from GFF..
Although, the splash is still not crowing.. Hoping we have a hen..

 

[City farm]

I personally don't know if any of my isbars are from GFF, but I do think it is important to keep free speech in the BYC. I personally take pride in any bird I have including mutts. I currently have roo culls that I have not culled because I haven't yet decided who to keep. I know who I should keep, but I am on good terms with some of my culls. ... that being said I am not selling it is just for me.

We love even the barnyard mix bird's.. We choose our roosters by personality.. If they are nice they stay.. If theya re flighty nah.. I like to be able to look them over for bumble foot, mites...ect..
How do you process your flock?

 

[gimmie birdies]

Time honored way, but I still hold them before hand tell'm I will care for their flock, and they were good birds.

 

[Scatterknit]

I think I should clarify something about the packing peanuts I received from GFF and the rooster pictured above. I didn't mean to imply that GFF made any representations that those packing peanuts were purebred or show quality or true to some kind of amorphous BYC standard or whatever. They were packing peanuts sent with the cream leg bars I ordered to make sure the CLs arrived safely and alive. I expect they sent them because they weren't perfect representations of the breed. They sent them for FREE. They're not going to send their best hatches as packing peanuts. And I certainly didn't expect them to be. I asked them what they were because I was curious and frankly I don't care if these extra freebies are pure or whatever.

I have ZERO interest in showing these chickens or any others. They are healthy. They were free. They're pretty. They make me breakfast. Yay!!!!!!

I don't like to see this GFF bashing all the time. GFF has done a remarkable job at LEGALLY importing beautiful and interesting breeds. They're doing what they love and making money at it. Good for them!

 

[KYTinpusher]

I think I should clarify something about the packing peanuts I received from GFF and the rooster pictured above. I didn't mean to imply that GFF made any representations that those packing peanuts were purebred or show quality or true to some kind of amorphous BYC standard or whatever. They were packing peanuts sent with the cream leg bars I ordered to make sure the CLs arrived safely and alive. I expect they sent them because they weren't perfect representations of the breed. They sent them for FREE. They're not going to send their best hatches as packing peanuts. And I certainly didn't expect them to be. I asked them what they were because I was curious and frankly I don't care if these extra freebies are pure or whatever.

I have ZERO interest in showing these chickens or any others. They are healthy. They were free. They're pretty. They make me breakfast. Yay!!!!!!

I don't like to see this GFF bashing all the time. GFF has done a remarkable job at LEGALLY importing beautiful and interesting breeds. They're doing what they love and making money at it. Good for them!

Quote:
I am glad that you are happy with Greenfire Farms, I really am. But I am still entitled to my opinion. You may be pleased at receiving "free" packing peanuts, but I would prefer to receive only the chicks that I paid for and be assured they are all the breed I asked for rather than getting extras that I have to feed for 2-3 months only to find out that the only thing they are good for is the soup pot. I am not talking about the black Isbars with the small combs. I did not expect all the Isbars I bought to be perfect. This breed is not prefect. The ones that I am talking about are the mottled cockerels that I received that are not any recognizable breed that were not marked that they were worthless "packing peanuts" and not Isbars. When I first inquired about the chicks in my shipment, I was led to believe that they were all Isbars. A few weeks later, when confronted with pictures, I was told 2 of the chicks in question were Orust (in spite of the fact they were blue and white) and another was a Swedish Flower Hen. I was told whatever was in the shipment was purebred. These are the 2 they told me were Orust:

 

[Scatterknit]

If you didn't want packing peanuts you could have ordered more of the breed you selected. Most breeders send packing peanuts depending on the number ordered and the distance they will be shipped to make it more likely you will receive healthy chicks on arrival. If paying for feed for a few packing peanuts for a couple of months is really that onerous, it seems odd that you would get into the expensive hobby of breeding rare birds. If you don't want them, cull them or give them away.

What I object to are the comments calling their integrity into question. GFF's Terms and Conditions make it quite clear that the chicks they send are not guaranteed to some standard of perfection or to win shows. They clearly state that the birds you get will display the fundamental aspects of the breed, that you can't expect cosmetically perfect birds, and only a tiny fraction of their birds conform to the breed standard in every respect. They say you will get the fundamentals that with time and experience you can form your own breeding program. They don't guarantee your breeding program will be a success. They say they cull for obvious defects like crooked toes but that with rare breeds, there will be problems with inbreeding and that's just part of the business of bringing back rare breeds. The very first sentence in their terms and conditions is that if you don't want to accept their terms, then don't place an order.

People who don't want to pay their prices, or who expect a perfect specimen for that price, or who can't afford to feed some packing peanuts, or who aren't willing to take the risks clearly spelled out in their terms and conditions shouldn't buy from them.

It seems very unfair to call someone's integrity into question when they clearly state what you can expect if you place an order with them. Questioning integrity is not "stating an opinion" and libelous words are not OK under "freedom of speech". Questioning someone's integrity instantly places a veil of suspicion over someone. It's the worst thing you can say about someone and I agree with the previous poster that internet anonymity doesn't make it OK.