Isbar thread

[City farm]

I posted about my isbar roo a while back. He was culled because of his bad temperament and I needed to make chicken noodle soup for the family. He was from GFF not as a packing peanut but ordered as one of 3 black Bresse chicks (and 3 bielefelders) direct from their site. They sent no extras. He was obviously not a bresse and upon sending pics to GFF I was told he was an isbar. I later won an auction of bresse chicks from GFF that when I asked what they were sending was told all were bresse. I ended up with another "isbar" in the group very close to the first one only this one has white earlobes.
My question is this... Since there is no SOP and new genetics have been added that have diversified the colors and such of the breed, should I try to breed this guy. I personally like his coloring. I was fortunate enough to get a male and female isbar of old bloodlines and could try a mix of this with the old or get a few new direct from their site. I am just questioning if he is pure. Then it seems a lot of people are questioning if the new line is pure. I'm thinking I would like to preserve this pattern, but want to know what you all think. Honestly. Thanks!

Have you ever tried the no crow collar. We just put it on our boy Burt.. So far so good.. Here is a live video demonstration.. Not one of our bird's.. We use the Velcro & have passed along to other friend's with roosters. They say it has worked for them. We did have one Banty barnyard mix it did not work on...

 

[TheTropix]

He's a beautiful rooster, cuti. The white 'spots'/marks on his breast don't look right to me. Now as for what's happened to Isbars with this new line, I have suspicions, and I don't trust the new line. I may be wrong... but I may be right, too. I've expressed my doubts/suspicions to a BYC friend of mine ever since GFF put the first pictures of the 'new line' on their site. There's something, or somethings, off about them. I've read some of the anomalies that some folks have experienced with this 'new' line.
Back when.. GFF looked all over for the 'best' available (Isbars in this case) birds to import... there were frighteningly few 'true' Isbars. (less than 200, they said.. doubtful) Then a couple of years later (plenty of time to do some breeding!) they find this new, previously unknown group of genetically diverse Isbars?? I dunno.. I have a hard time believing that fully. I think they've been crossed, whether by GFF or someone GFF contracted. It's just my opinion, but I don't think GFF's new line are 'pure', and never have. I think that may also be part of the reason for the HUGE sudden price drop - $99 down to $29. And using Isbars for packing peanuts??? It's all suspicious, to me. They've dropped the prices on a couple of other Breeds that recently have had unusual characteristics showing up. Some will, in appearance, look like Isbars... but when you start breeding them, other genes express themselves. Some come from GFF looking markedly 'different' than pure Isbars. Just my thought on it.
But he is pretty.

 

[KYTinpusher]

He's a beautiful rooster, cuti. The white 'spots'/marks on his breast don't look right to me. Now as for what's happened to Isbars with this new line, I have suspicions, and I don't trust the new line. I may be wrong... but I may be right, too. I've expressed my doubts/suspicions to a BYC friend of mine ever since GFF put the first pictures of the 'new line' on their site. There's something, or somethings, off about them. I've read some of the anomalies that some folks have experienced with this 'new' line.
Back when.. GFF looked all over for the 'best' available (Isbars in this case) birds to import... there were frighteningly few 'true' Isbars. (less than 200, they said.. doubtful) Then a couple of years later (plenty of time to do some breeding!) they find this new, previously unknown group of genetically diverse Isbars?? I dunno.. I have a hard time believing that fully. I think they've been crossed, whether by GFF or someone GFF contracted. It's just my opinion, but I don't think GFF's new line are 'pure', and never have. I think that may also be part of the reason for the HUGE sudden price drop - $99 down to $29. And using Isbars for packing peanuts??? It's all suspicious, to me. They've dropped the prices on a couple of other Breeds that recently have had unusual characteristics showing up. Some will, in appearance, look like Isbars... but when you start breeding them, other genes express themselves. Some come from GFF looking markedly 'different' than pure Isbars. Just my thought on it.
But he is pretty.

I feel like Willy Wonka (Gene Wilder) in the movie Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory! "So much time and so little to do. Wait a minute. Strike that. Reverse it. Thank you."

I have spent way too many hours recently doing research on the Isbars, but I just can't stop myself!

I think I am learning Swedish by osmosis. Automatic translators leave a lot to be desired, but I am learning a lot of Swedish by having to fill in the holes. I don't have time to get into it all right now, but as I translate better and digest it, I will be sharing what I have learned and I think it will answer a lot of your questions.


There is a whole treasure trove of information that I have been going over recently. I have been in contact with Johan Widing, the author of the blog that I linked to earlier in this thread. He helped to start the preservation effort for the Isbar about ten years ago. I believe he has one of the 3 original flocks of "clean stock" Isbars that Sweden's pedigree preservation program is working with.

I have also been in contact with Andreas Harrysson, who is the Isbar contact person for the 2-year-old association Svenska Kulturhönsföreningen, the group in Sweden that has the responsibility for breeding the Isbar.

Sorry to leave you all hanging, but I have chores to attend to, and I will try to get back to this in the not too distant future.

Just wanted to make you aware that there is much more to follow...

 

[TheTropix]

KYTinpusher "Sorry to leave you all hanging, but I have chores to attend to, and I will try to get back to this in the not too distant future. "

AAAAAARRRGGGHHHHHHH!! LOL I look forward to hearing about what you've learned. I need to get in touch with my niece and see if she can get some time to help a little. She speaks Swedish well,(she loved Sweden!) and is engaged to a nice young man she met in Sweden, and he's in the U.S. right now. I don't know if I can get them involved in a 'chicken' conversation, but maybe they'll help with some of the sketchier Swedish translations you run into. I look forward to hearing more! : ) Thanks!

 

[TheTropix]

I'd said..."Some will, in appearance, look like Isbars... but when you start breeding them, other genes express themselves. Some come from GFF looking markedly 'different' than pure Isbars." I meant to say some genes may express themselves.

 

[cutipatooti]

City farm, I have heard of the no crow collar and I'm glad it's working for people. I don't have a problem with crowing or I don't mind the crowing and neighbors are to far to be bothered. I do mind being attacked and my kids to afraid to go out of the house.

The tropix, I hear what you and others are saying about the new line of isbars. I am looking forward to working more with the old line in the near future.

 

[City farm]

City farm, I have heard of the no crow collar and I'm glad it's working for people. I don't have a problem with crowing or I don't mind the crowing and neighbors are to far to be bothered. I do mind being attacked and my kids to afraid to go out of the house.

The tropix, I hear what you and others are saying about the new line of isbars. I am looking forward to working more with the old line in the near future.

I still laughter when our youngest tried to cone onto our property to get into the house. The way he tells it is hilarious.. Our barnyard mix was "NOT" going to let him anywhere near the house.. We let them free range around 3-4 P.M. They put themselves to bed when it's dusk. Normally I am out there watching for hawks or loose dog's. We are close to A.S.U. But I had dropped him off to go get something from a neighbor. He calls saying the roster Clark Kent Jr. Ran him off. One way to get rid of them, huh..

 

[KYTinpusher]

Sorry to leave you hanging. Let me start a summary of some of the information I have learned thus far. This may have to be done in parts...

Disclaimer: This is my interpretation of what I have read based on my translations.

I think everyone knows that the Isbar was originally bred by a Swedish monk, Martin Silverudd. He also bred some other rare Swedish breeds - Queen Silvia, Fifty Five Flowery, and Småland Hens. His mission in breeding was to accomplish very productive, auto-sexing chickens who laid eggs in a variety of colors. That really was the extent of his mission. The Isbar was bred to be a green-egg-laying machine. Toward that end, it was small and thrifty, a good forager that never went broody (broody hens don't lay eggs) that laid large amounts of large, green eggs. It was single-combed like all of his other breeds. The roosters were to have large combs and the hens small ones to make it easier to sex the chicks at a young age. A very practical chicken. The fact that it was a beautiful bird in white, blue, black and splash colorations was not really of consequence to him. I think if Martin Silverudd were alive today, he would probably be employed by a company like United Egg Producers to produce their designer egg line. He may have liked the colors of his chickens, but it was not his main focus.

Hence, the Isbar was never meant to be a show chicken. It was a production breed. As such, in the years after his death it was bred in the general population with production in mind and little concern was given to maintaining the outward appearance of the breed. Characteristics that to our SOP-focused minds would be undesirable and need to be culled, were allowed to proliferate. Plummage color, eye color, leg color were not specific.

About 10 years ago, three flocks of "clean stock" Silverudd Isbars were found in Sweden. Only 3. They had survived by trading among themselves. It is from this stock that the preservation effort in Sweden was started. I take "clean stock" to mean a more standard outward appearance, as it was when Silverudd lived, while still maintaining the utility qualities. I don't know the number of chickens that these 3 flocks consisted of, but it was a very small breeding base. Today, all the chickens in the preservation effort are registered stock from the 3 original stock. No new birds other than their offspring will enter the program. I believe, but can not confirm yet, that GFF's first import line came from at least one of these 3 farms.

One of the issues facing the Isbar program in Sweden is that many crossbred birds in the general population are still called Isbars. It seems similar to me to the issue with Ameraucanas in this country, sans an SOP for Isbars. I don't know if other colors beyond BBS and white in the general population are considered Isbars, though.

In the preservation program today, BBS and white are accepted colors, along with flowery and ruddy varieties (still working on what exactly these are, although I have a good idea). It is said that these variants are recessive genes that surfaced after decades of breeding, although there is a contingent that says these traits were never mentioned in the notes from the original breeding and are of "other" origin. The Swedish Culture Poultry Association, the group responsible for the registered breeding of the Isbar, is thinking of adding the Flowery Isbar and the Ruddy Isbar as separate, official colors.

Enough for now, the brain is going into neutral... I think I am going to be dreaming about Isbars tonight!

 

[Dispatch273]

Wow! Thank you for that wealth of information! I'd like to get into breeding isbars and think I've got a good cock to start with. Now I just need to find some ladies for him. Do you know where I can find some chicks or eggs from the old lines?

 

[KYTinpusher]

Wow! Thank you for that wealth of information! I'd like to get into breeding isbars and think I've got a good cock to start with. Now I just need to find some ladies for him. Do you know where I can find some chicks or eggs from the old lines?

I'll PM you.

There is more to come when I get more time, but for now, picture time! Last year my girls were first year layers. They amazed me with the large eggs that they laid relative to their small body size. This year they are even more amazing!!! That is a quarter in the picture with the eggs.