Isn't a farriers job to work with horses????

[geepy]

I love. love ,love my farrier. He even brags about how easy my three horses are to work with. I've trained them to ground tie. A couple of times they acted up but I told the farrier to correct them with my blessing (nothing harsh)just to get his respect . Ever since then they are a dream. My farrier says doing my horses are almost like a vacation. The thing is I could trim my own horses feet but it would kill my back. I personally think being a farrier is one of toughest jobs. JMHO.

 

[dak]

It is not a farrier's job (or a vet's) to train your horses. It is your job.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
Errr...

it's not quite that simple. The nail comes all the way through the hoof and gets crimped on the top side. If you just pry the shoe off, you will cause a LOT of damage to the hoof wall. You need to lift the crimp just enough that you can grasp it with a good pair of nippers and nip that sucker off. (Most farriers do this so often that they have a special tool for it that avoids damaging the wall every time they reset a shoe.) Depending on the farrier, there will be 2-4 nails crimped on each side of the hoof. Once the crimp is gone, then you can pull the shoe off with relatively little damage to the hoof wall.

Just trying to be helpful here.


Rusty

edited to add:

debiraymond wrote:

The reasoning here is very circular to me. We WANT to train the horses, but Duchess must be shod before we can ride her. Anyone have a solution around THAT one??

We know Duke is a problem and do not expect anyone to have to deal with him but me, and occasionally Ken when Duke is in a good mood.

Debi, every time you handle a horse, you are "training" him. The key is to always handle correctly so you don't have to keep undoing the things you (or somebody else) has inadvertently taught him. As an example, I am currently teaching everyone in the barn to ground tie. This really is not some complicated procedure. It just means that every day, I put a lead rope on the horse, walk him out of his stall, ask him to square up (which he already knows how to do). Then I tell him to stand and I drop the lead rope. When he moves or fidgets, I bring him back to square and drop the rope again as I say "Stand, son." Then I go on with my brushing or currying or combing. At first we probably did this a dozen times in the course of a session. Now, after a week of doing it, I have to correct maybe once or twice. Eventually we will get rock solid on the exercise. Then I will vary where we do it and what -- if anything -- I am doing to distract him. Eventually I will be able to drop that rope anywhere at anytime and he will stay exactly where I left him. (It's really no different than the long stay exercise for dogs.)

With your guys, to train for feet, basically just pick them up every day. Reward them with lots of "Good boy"s and an occasional treat. Eventually it will become so natural, they won't give it a second thought. Then you add the holding of the leg between your knees like a farrier does and even pop their soles lightly to simulate the nailing of the shoe. Repeat these things often enough and it becomes second nature to the horse to do them and have them done.

All in the world "ground training" is is repeating stuff so often that it becomes a natural part of the horse's routine that he doesn't bother to question anymore. All it takes is time, persistence, and consistency.

HTH(edited to correct "pry" to "pull" because prying will damage the rim of the hoof. Sometimes when I'm trying to be helpful I am not careful enough with my word choices. This was one of those times.)​

Rusty... thread hijack... its driving me CRAZY!
WHAT does HTH mean, i see it all your posts..... gah!

 

[froggiesheins]

Quote:
All you equine BYCers: read this again and again. Welsummer does know what she is talking about. I agree with welsummer for the most part. [she does get a tad bossy from time to time, but thats just my opinion].
My farrier will ONLY take on new clients IF their horse stand still and are quiet. HE is 60 years old and cannot afford to get hurt. I have been using him for 20+ years and have NEVER EVER had a lame or off horse from him. Check out the background of the farrier, just like you would check out a contractor/electrician etc... Did he go to school? Is he recommended? What does his work look like? People this is NOT rocket science BUT it does take some common sense and intellegence on the horse owners part. Do your homework, what does a properly shod horse look like. Angles of the hoof should be the same as the angle of the pasturne. Is the hoof trimmed/rasped level? Is it about 3 1/2" to 4" long AFTER it is trimmed in the front? Are the shoes covering the bars of the heels? Is there room around the new shoe for hoof expansion when the horse bears weight on the foot? If you are thinking HUH to any of this; time to study, ask a knowledgable horseperson, go online, do your homework.
I have seen SO many horses go around with severly contracted heels, soreness, lameness and a host of other conditions because the owner DID NOT do his/her homework and get the horse correctly shod.
Thanks for letting me vent, this is one of my pet peeves.

 

[froggiesheins]

Quote:
One solution.....do not ride the horse. Do your ground work FIRST to "train" the horse. Once horse can work on a lunge line and learn whoa/walk/trot/canter verbal commands, and back up/ move away from pressure, THEN you can ride. If you cannot get horsey to do it on the ground, you will not get it once you are on top.

 

[debilorrah]

WOW!!! On two levels. The first one is a big fat THANK YOU to those who have PM'd me with assistance. The other is big fat

Sometimes a poster wants help, not judgement. So

again. You know who you are.

 

[SourRoses]

Thank you Rusty... good clarification

Others that have posted since then..... I really do not understand sometimes... Why just assume that an op doesen't know what they are doing, and automatically make an issue about them, when you have never seen them in real life? I can see someone turning that question around to be about the farrier then, but, the fact is, he isen't the one we are talking to here. So why not give a BYC member the benefit of the doubt?

Also, just because people dont use exactly the descriptive language you would use, or go into great detail immediately in the first post... why assume they are wrong? People here on the forum are coming from many different states, and in different areas there are different ways of talking about something. Not to mention the different people themselves, their up-bringing, and what they see at the moment they are writing as being of more importance. It doesen't mean they dont know what they are talking about. Since the only thing I can see about another person here is the words that show up on my screen, thats what I stick to, and try not to assume anything beyond it... The op said the farrier would only talk to her husband, and not her (the owner), and was being rude... I guessed that as probably a sexist mentality, wrong or not.... and the guy was constantly stopping what he was doing to talk with the hubby, well if I were the horse, darn straight I'd want my foot back too.

From what I read, it sounds to me like, Duke at least, is a new horse for the op. Training does take time. If she finds she needs help with that training, I'm sure she would start a new thread asking for it, or for reliable rescources to find it.

 

[GhostRider65]

It's always the owners responsibility to train there horses to stand for the trim or shoes, This Farrier is also a bit touchy, if he had given 5 minutes to work with the horse before trying to shoe, he would have been better off. I would teach your horses a cue to give the foot and make sure they know it well, Clinton Anderson has some very good methods for this, then get a new farrier out after this the cue work is done and ask them to take a few minutes to accustom them selves to your horse, just explain you got a bad farrier before and you want to make sure all goes well.
It also helps if you can work your horse a bit before hand if they are fresh or flighty, even on a lounge line say 15 minutes repeating things they know, anything to make them pay attention, hold your horse also don't tie them so if a correction is needed it is immediately, a small workout though should take the edge off..work with them each day 10 or 15 minutes Kim

 

[debilorrah]

Quote:
They have both been with us for a year now. Both rescues and they need each other. We really have NO CLUE what we are doing beyond the fact that we both know how to ride. We have searched all over for how to train these guys and we know that we need a professional to do that. The fact remains that Duchess needs to be shoid before she can train!!! What most of you don't get is that we are doing what we should!!!! It IS circular to expect us to train a horse BEFORE she is shod when shodding is what is needed to start training.

Thank you squishy! If you haven't already noticed there are alot of judgemental people around here lately. I still and will always believe that farrier should have basic knowledge of horses and be able to deal with one that dances. Duchess is NOT difficult. And I am NOT an owner that ignores their animals.

 

[redhen]

I still wanna know what HTH means?..