It was just one of those shows....

[columbiacritter]

Quote:
I've been involved in shows from flowers to dogs, horses, cats and birds. No where have I ever encountered a perfect judge. I even won in a ring with a dog once and was totally stunned because we were obviously not the best there. Honestly I felt guilty about it and offered to protest my own win. The show steward told me not to.

Poultry judges that I've watched seem to have an exhausting the harried job to perform with lots of people watching. The last show I was at I felt really bad for an older judge whose assistant was quite petite and they were judging some darned nasty tempered very large roos. If I could I would have applauded the judge for not slamming some of the blighters back into their cages.

I will stick to judging flowers, at least they don't have spurs!

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I will stick to judging flowers, at least they don't have spurs!

But some have thorns

 

[Black Feather]

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I don't entirely agree with this and here's why: I agree with the showing well part, but not necessarily the winning part. Showing well in my mind means that my birds are in tip top shape and are 'on' on that particular day, but I want the 'best' bird to win. I don't really care if it's mine or not. If mine is the best bird and it wins then great. If mine is not the best bird and it doesn't win then I'm perfectly happy too because I know it was a fair competition and gives me something to strive for in the next show/breeding season. Again, this is just my opinion.

I think what bothered me was this was not fair competition because the appropriate birds were not placing. I've clerked many a show and spoken with many a judge and this particular show didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. As it is though it's water under the bridge. I just found it interesting for the sake of discussion because if there is no rhyme or reason for a bird to be placed in a show then why make up a Standard of Perfection in the first place? Some of the other people who were showing were also judges in their own right, and they also expressed the same opinion....so I can't be too far off the mark.

I've also seen the same sort of thing happen in horses. One judge came right out and told me she didn't place my horse because he was an Appaloosa, and Appaloosas aren't shown under English style tack. That's not fair or appropriate judging either.

I must say though, the vast majority of poultry judges are pretty good.

UC

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Is there a procedure for notifying the APA or ABA of a judge who is so far off the mark? Not just protesting an individual award, but specifically questioning the overall judgment displayed. Certainly the sponsors for a show can choose to not use a judge that they feel is unqualified, but it seems like there needs to be some sort of formal procedure. It is one thing for there to be a strange fluke with the judging, but if there is any consistant pattern it would become apparent fairly rapidly.

It really isn't fair to either the vast majority of knowledgeable judges nor to exhibitors who have no say in the choice of judge if someone routinely makes bad decisions.

 

[Black Feather]

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That's an interesting question actually. I don't know....I'll ask one of the other competitors/judges what he thinks.

 

[Attack Chicken]

I have had to were a Standard White Leghorn cock with blue in his broken tail-feathers lopped over comb beat of all of the other Leghorns in its class including my cockrel. I was so mad but then I moved on.

 

[NYREDS]

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There is a procedure for protesting a judging decision at the show in question. I'm not at home so am unable to look up the possibility of any other established procedures.
IMO it would be difficult for anyone after the fact to make any determination about judging decisions w/o being able to review the classes that were judged.

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
I wanted to respond about the Buff Silkies you referenced.
You're right the presence of black in buff plumage isn't a DQ but also understand that a judge is not required to place a bird he or she feels is unworthy of placement. I have declined to place a bird when it was the only one in the class because it was such a poor example of the breed that it was almost unrecognizable.
Black in buff plumage can be up to a 2 point per section cut. The tail contains more than one section as does the wing [primaries, secondaries, coverts, etc]. If there are enough defects in a bird they effectively become a DQ. Don't know if that was the case in this instance but it's a possibility.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I wanted to respond about the Buff Silkies you referenced.
You're right the presence of black in buff plumage isn't a DQ but also understand that a judge is not required to place a bird he or she feels is unworthy of placement. I have declined to place a bird when it was the only one in the class because it was such a poor example of the breed that it was almost unrecognizable.
Black in buff plumage can be up to a 2 point per section cut. The tail contains more than one section as does the wing [primaries, secondaries, coverts, etc]. If there are enough defects in a bird they effectively become a DQ. Don't know if that was the case in this instance but it's a possibility.

No, I could understand not placing a bird or DQing one becasue it is very far from the standard, but in this case it was a silkie national and all the birds were very good quality; none had much black, but all had some. I had buffs entered, but there were a number of other folks who had buffs as well, and mine were not the best, at least in my opinion. He marked the cards DQ for foreign color. He also awarded Best AOV to a partridge, which is a recognised variety, not an AOV.​

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

There is a procedure for protesting a judging decision at the show in question. I'm not at home so am unable to look up the possibility of any other established procedures.
IMO it would be difficult for anyone after the fact to make any determination about judging decisions w/o being able to review the classes that were judged.

Yes, I know there is a procedure for protesting during a show, and I agree that it would be very difficult after the fact to properly review the decisions. Birds cannot be looked over for re-evaluation or explanation.

My point was if a person consistently misjudges at show after show after show, then the sanctioning organizations should have a means of taking notice of it and being able to review and possibly revoke the license. I am sure that many very good judges occasionally have their judgement called into question--as you said earlier--you have to hold the bird in your hand to really evaluate it. Perhaps it has an obvious fault, but the more correct appearing bird may have an unobvious DQ. But if someone is consistently questioned, there is probably a problem.​