Java Thread

Hi y'all so I have finally gotten into mottled Javas, I have a trio that is about 3 months old, 1 chick about 3 weeks old and 7 (..or 8) that just hatched yesterday. Now here is mu delemia, in the same incubator I hatched mottled Javas and Lemon Cuckoo orpingtons, figuring they would be super easy to tell apart. And they were. I was convinced at hatch that I had 5 orps and 7 Javas. Well one of the "orps" definitely resembles a Java more except for it is solid white/yellow with 2 very tiny patches of light light grey, not even spots just a couple little tips of the fluff if that makes sense. It is a different shade of "white" than the orps who have a more tannish shade over their white. SO I think I have a white Java!!

Now on to the questions, should/can I breed this with my mottleds? I assume I shouldnt because then the resulting birds that show mottled would be carrying white...correct?

And then, could I start a white project with this bird?

Depends on what your goals are for your breeding program. If it doesn't have decent Java *type*, then I wouldn't bother with it at all - put it into your food-egg flock or eat it.

If you are breeding your Mottleds to the Standard, then you do not want to use that bird. Mottled Javas already have more white in them than the SOP calls for (with individual differences in white amounts). Mottleds also get whiter with age. Even if that white bird were to have correct body type and other correct Java characteristics, if you add that white bird into your Mottled breeding program, you could add in way too much white into the Mottleds. White is something that needs to be toned down in most Mottleds and it's a struggle to try to get the number of all-white feathers out of the wings and tails especially.

If the bird turns out to have correct Java type and other characteristics once it is fully matured (usually at least a year for females, males can take a couple of years to be fully matured to where they will not change much except to have their white feathering increase over time), then you could look at breeding it as a White Java if you desired.

There is no SOP for the White Java because they are no longer recognized as a variety. The problem with the White Javas was the leg/foot color. The Standard for the Whites, which it seems was not officially disseminated in print, forced the Java breeders to make changes to their White Javas in order for them to look different from White Rocks. The APA wanted the White Javas to have willow (greeny-blackish color) legs. However in the old literature, the breeders say that the White Javas should have yellow legs, not willow legs. And that SOP for White Javas is 100+ years old. So you would have to decide what color legs you were going to try breeding for and whether or not you wanted to try to go for the willow color which the APA recognized, or the yellow legs that the breeders in the late 18th/early 19th century said was correct for them. It was apparently difficult for enough White Javas to get the willow leg color, which is why they died out and were removed from the Standard.

Beyond the leg color issue, if you were to try to breed the White, I would say to breed them to the Java SOP for the non-color characteristics, and then make your choice as to what leg color you want. I don't recall if I have found anything in the old literature yet about what the correct eye color for the White Java was supposed to be. If the bird doesn't have good Java type, you can breed it but it will probably be a really long while (if at all) before you get offspring that have the correct *Java look*, rather than just the generic white chicken silhouette.

If you decided to breed the White bird, if you have good Java type, you're still going to be fighting with black feathering for a while in the offspring. I would say to pick the best typed Mottleds that have the most amount of white in them when they are young, to breed to the White bird first. But you may have to hatch some pretty large amounts of chicks for a few years to try to get more white birds to breed with, as well as to maintain the other Java characteristics.

It would not be a project for the faint of heart. It's a lot of hard work and frustration just trying to improve/maintain the proper characteristics in the Blacks and Mottleds.
 
Depends on what your goals are for your breeding program. If it doesn't have decent Java *type*, then I wouldn't bother with it at all - put it into your food-egg flock or eat it.

If you are breeding your Mottleds to the Standard, then you do not want to use that bird. Mottled Javas already have more white in them than the SOP calls for (with individual differences in white amounts). Mottleds also get whiter with age. Even if that white bird were to have correct body type and other correct Java characteristics, if you add that white bird into your Mottled breeding program, you could add in way too much white into the Mottleds. White is something that needs to be toned down in most Mottleds and it's a struggle to try to get the number of all-white feathers out of the wings and tails especially.

If the bird turns out to have correct Java type and other characteristics once it is fully matured (usually at least a year for females, males can take a couple of years to be fully matured to where they will not change much except to have their white feathering increase over time), then you could look at breeding it as a White Java if you desired.

There is no SOP for the White Java because they are no longer recognized as a variety. The problem with the White Javas was the leg/foot color. The Standard for the Whites, which it seems was not officially disseminated in print, forced the Java breeders to make changes to their White Javas in order for them to look different from White Rocks. The APA wanted the White Javas to have willow (greeny-blackish color) legs. However in the old literature, the breeders say that the White Javas should have yellow legs, not willow legs. And that SOP for White Javas is 100+ years old. So you would have to decide what color legs you were going to try breeding for and whether or not you wanted to try to go for the willow color which the APA recognized, or the yellow legs that the breeders in the late 18th/early 19th century said was correct for them. It was apparently difficult for enough White Javas to get the willow leg color, which is why they died out and were removed from the Standard.

Beyond the leg color issue, if you were to try to breed the White, I would say to breed them to the Java SOP for the non-color characteristics, and then make your choice as to what leg color you want. I don't recall if I have found anything in the old literature yet about what the correct eye color for the White Java was supposed to be. If the bird doesn't have good Java type, you can breed it but it will probably be a really long while (if at all) before you get offspring that have the correct *Java look*, rather than just the generic white chicken silhouette.

If you decided to breed the White bird, if you have good Java type, you're still going to be fighting with black feathering for a while in the offspring. I would say to pick the best typed Mottleds that have the most amount of white in them when they are young, to breed to the White bird first. But you may have to hatch some pretty large amounts of chicks for a few years to try to get more white birds to breed with, as well as to maintain the other Java characteristics.

It would not be a project for the faint of heart. It's a lot of hard work and frustration just trying to improve/maintain the proper characteristics in the Blacks and Mottleds.
thank you so much for all of the information! I will for sure have to put some thought into and see how they turn out
 
Anyone have any guesses on this one, about 6 weeks here.....

700

700

700

700
 
In regards to the white chick...I would go ahead and allow her part of the breeding and collecting eggs for hatching...allowing the white gene to continue on....it's fun and we aren't gonna change a lot with the critical breed doing so...relax and have fun...the java breed needs to keep it's genes going forward....unless you know more than they do, I would allow nature to keep working.

bigz
 
Question on amount of white in juvenile Mottled Javas. I've read on here that as the birds age, they get more and more white in their feathers. This is my first year with java chicks hatching and the juveniles are showing lots of white, especially in the breast area. Will that carry on as they get their adult plumage? or do I need to wait until they mature before I make a decision on which ones to keep? I'll be taking other factors into account too, but I was just wondering what differences others have seen in their birds as they mature from juvie to adult.
 
Question on amount of white in juvenile Mottled Javas. I've read on here that as the birds age, they get more and more white in their feathers. This is my first year with java chicks hatching and the juveniles are showing lots of white, especially in the breast area. Will that carry on as they get their adult plumage? or do I need to wait until they mature before I make a decision on which ones to keep? I'll be taking other factors into account too, but I was just wondering what differences others have seen in their birds as they mature from juvie to adult.
If you don't have any other genes showing up in your hatch group, then most of them are going to look really white as chicks. Once they get past roughly 6 months old, you can get a little better idea of how white they will be at the starting line of maturity (approx. 1 year old). Javas are such slow maturing birds that it really is better to keep them as long as you can before making final breeding decisions - when everything is equal among the group that you're looking at. Males can take up to two years to really see what they will finally turn out to be like.

It's all about trying to match up the birds to a mate that can help offset flaws (like being too white when they are a year old), or to help strengthen good traits. So if you have really white bird that you need to breed because of other traits, then you'd try to match that bird up with a darker mate.
 
Do any of you have chick availability? My order just fell through and I was really hoping to get started with Javas this year :)

Thanks!
 
Sorry for this picture but this is the only one I have. (when I submit I lose the picture....sorry) I have 60 day old Black Java's. Most of them have red combs and wattles, but a couple of them have a different color like a cream color. Any one knows what this would mean?
 
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