Jets vs sharks

[Jura]

Hello,
I have a different kind of bullying problem. I have a 8 x 8 coupe and a 16 x 20 run with an additional chicken tunnel that loops back on itself and back into the run.
I have a total of eight chickens, four from last spring and from this winter, I’ve been unable to integrate them they’re not free range nor do I have a neutral territory available to reintroduce everybody. It seems the four new chickens have taken to being victims at all times it’s almost seems to make the bullying worse. Should I remove the biggest bullies of the group or should I separate the new chickens and let them get their confidence back before putting them back in?

 

[rosemarythyme]

(With a title like that I thought this was a hockey game thread lol)

Any photos of your set up? Are they all the same or similar breeds or is it two groups of dissimilar birds?

What was your approach to trying to integrate them and what sort of bullying behavior are you seeing? Have you been jumping in at every little peck and squeak or have you given them a chance to work things out?

 

[Jura]

(With a title like that I thought this was a hockey game thread lol)

Any photos of your set up? Are they all the same or similar breeds or is it two groups of dissimilar birds?

What was your approach to trying to integrate them and what sort of bullying behavior are you seeing? Have you been jumping in at every little peck and squeak or have you given them a chance to work things out?

 

[Jura]

View attachment 4131579

This is a photo of the run and coupe originally the younger ones were penned off inside of the coop since they were so young and it was still fairly cold out. As they got bigger and bigger, their space increased with loss of places to perch and runaway until I opened up their pen completely. There were still size difference between them the four original are 3 Rhode Island reds 1 Westinghouse and the next four are Americaunas. All four of the little ones tend to run in fear quite a bit instigating almost any of the floor to chase them. I did sign out two of the bigger red hens as primary chasers and they’re currently in chicken jail in another yard

 

[rosemarythyme]

From what I can see the run doesn't have a lot of hiding spots or things to take advantage of vertical space, both which can help birds that are bullied. Clutter to break up the space helps a lot when integrating: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/page-6#post-25037140

I did sign out two of the bigger red hens as primary chasers and they’re currently in chicken jail in another yard

That's not a bad idea, how are the younger ones without the 2 bigger bullies in the run?

Also you didn't answer: What was your approach to trying to integrate them and what sort of bullying behavior are you seeing? Have you been jumping in at every little peck and squeak or have you given them a chance to work things out? It's important because sometimes owners rush integration too much (which doesn't sound like the case here) or are too quick to intervene and the younger birds never get a chance to stand up for themselves.

 

[CalgaryFarmer]

I find the look-no-see (Edit: look-no-touch) method works quite well. I do it for about 2 weeks. I then do supervise free range. My chickens do not free range on their own. Then I do supervised visits in the run. If things go well, then they can do unsupervised visits in the run.

Make sure they can get away from the bullies. Make sure there are no dead ends in the run.

I find bullies get lazy and tired so they eventually stop the bullying. The bullied watch for bullies and step away if one gets too close.

If they are doing well in the run, I leave them out while it gets dark. They will eventually go into the coop. I then let them out early in the morning.

As you go through the steps you just need to monitor things and make adjustments as you go along.

 

[Jura]

From what I can see the run doesn't have a lot of hiding spots or things to take advantage of vertical space, both which can help birds that are bullied. Clutter to break up the space helps a lot when integrating: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/page-6#post-25037140

That's not a bad idea, how are the younger ones without the 2 bigger bullies in the run?

Also you didn't answer: What was your approach to trying to integrate them and what sort of bullying behavior are you seeing? Have you been jumping in at every little peck and squeak or have you given them a chance to work things out? It's important because sometimes owners rush integration too much (which doesn't sound like the case here) or are too quick to intervene and the younger birds never get a chance to stand up for themselves.

There’s less chasing, but the remaining two older hands still chase off a little ones, and the little group of four act like complete victims at all times. It’s essentially a constant chase game with the little ones sometimes we’re afraid to even come out of the coupe into the run to eat. There is food and water in the coop. Multiple food stations in the run. The younger ones lived inside the coupe in a separate area until they were a little bit bigger. Probably a few few weeks, but the big four older hens are just jerks. Should I separate the four smaller ones until they are at seven months?

 

[rosemarythyme]

There’s less chasing, but the remaining two older hands still chase off a little ones, and the little group of four act like complete victims at all times. It’s essentially a constant chase game with the little ones sometimes we’re afraid to even come out of the coupe into the run to eat. There is food and water in the coop. Multiple food stations in the run. The younger ones lived inside the coupe in a separate area until they were a little bit bigger. Probably a few few weeks, but the big four older hens are just jerks. Should I separate the four smaller ones until they are at seven months?

Really seems extreme to me to wait that long as the younger birds would be laying by then, but with no ownership of space where would they lay? The younger birds really need the opportunity to stand up for themselves and claim some space, chasing by itself shouldn't have been enough to cause you to separate them repeatedly.

Can you maybe flip the script and separate out the older ones (maybe lock them in the coop a few days) to give the younger ones time to take more ownership of the run space instead? Or at least separate out the two worst bullies for a longer period of time?

 

[Jura]

I find the look-no-see (Edit: look-no-touch) method works quite well. I do it for about 2 weeks. I then do supervise free range. My chickens do not free range on their own. Then I do supervised visits in the run. If things go well, then they can do unsupervised visits in the run.

Make sure they can get away from the bullies. Make sure there are no dead ends in the run.

I find bullies get lazy and tired so they eventually stop the bullying. The bullied watch for bullies and step away if one gets too close.

If they are doing well in the run, I leave them out while it gets dark. They will eventually go into the coop. I then let them out early in the morning.

As you go through the steps you just need to monitor things and make adjustments as you go along.

Really seems extreme to me to wait that long as the younger birds would be laying by then, but with no ownership of space where would they lay? The younger birds really need the opportunity to stand up for themselves and claim some space, chasing by itself shouldn't have been enough to cause you to separate them repeatedly.

Can you maybe flip the script and separate out the older ones (maybe lock them in the coop a few days) to give the younger ones time to take more ownership of the run space instead? Or at least separate out the two worst bullies for a longer period of time?

I can give that a shot. It gives me anxiety watching the four older hens constantly keeping the littles locked in. The two in chicken jail seem to almost enjoy it

 

[Altairsky]

I'd add some obstacles in the run, to break the line of sight.
Pecking, chasing and screaming is normal as long as there is no feathers flying everywhere.
Heck, even my broody raised chicks that are supposed to be integrated on day one go through a weaning period where literally the whole flock bully them. It's normal, really, as long as there is no physical damage.