Joel Salatin a Snake Oil sales man?

[Duramaxgirl]

This is an interesting thread. I've read an own a few of his books and tried some of his ideas. We where going to try his meaties coop that moves around this summer on our land but only for our own use not for profit.

 

[TheMerryYeoman]

Joel is not about large scale. That is one of the things that would make his ideas work. Something that would make his ideas not work would be nobody growing/raising their own produce (or anymore than we are now).

 

[eds500]

I don't think his methods are 'snake oil' when you take his labor model into consideration. He uses intern and apprenticeship labor which is far less expensive than market-priced labor. And generally, labor is the most expensive incremental input for a business. You can read more about the conditions of being either type on the Polyface Farm website. His model wouldn't be sustainable using market-priced labor at the scale he uses intern and apprenticeships. He would have to decrease his non-labor operational costs or raise his product prices which are already on the high-end of the market.

Given all that, I appreciate what he's trying to do. His message does resonate with people knowing that his methods may not be duplicated easily. His operation, in my mind, sits at the opposite end of the spectrum from factory farming and I think the more he espouses the upside of his ways, the more likely there will be a shift toward more responsible farming and less to mass-produced poultry and produce.

 

[400constantne]

... he says that he trains his chickens, and gets a new flock every two year, nuff said. I agree that it all sounds very good. That the chickens are probably very healthy before they go to the slaughter. I see all of the positive comments on the youtube video. However, his method reminds me of a self help book. You read it, you agree with everything it said, it sounds great, but the entire method is simply useless.

You have to move the "tractor", and the fence, every three days. You have to "train" the chickens not to roost under the tractor.
Conveniece: 0%
The chickens are probably miles away from you at times. The fence is short. There is no overhead protection.
Saftey: 0% (even though it has a fence... really, it only takes one raccon, or one dog... or a few hawks or even crows)
In most places around the US you would have to have two chicken coops, the tractor and another one for winter. You have to pay for fuel to drive over to your tractor and pull it. You have to buy an electric fece (large), you have to have batteries to run it.
Expense: 300% of norm
Quality of life for chickens:
About as good as it gets... until they are eaten by you or the birds. 100%

We don't need the producers of our food to improve their conditions. We nee the ability to produce our OWN FOOD. For commercial purposes the Polyface farm chicken tractor does not work.

 

[Contrary]

Have you talked to any farmers who have actually tried it?

The original poster has obviously not talked to any farmers who are employing these methods, nor any accountants. I know several farms offhand that use the rotating pasture technique for layers with good success. For example, many of these "eggmobiles" are well suited for winter housing as well. The poultry netting can be expensed over a ten year period, and the coops over a 20 year period. For example, $1,000 in poultry netting is really just an extra $100 per year expense. This is easy cost to recover when you have 500 layers in a one acre fence. A search for "eggmobiles" or "mobile hen houses" on google will return many valid results.

All in all, farming isn't for everybody. It doesn't bother me when another fly-by-night poultry operation fails due to poor management because it is an extremely competitive business. It just means more customers for me. And yes, I am one of these successful pastured poultry operators.

 

[PattyO]

I have been to Polyface farm. Those meat bird tractors can be moved by hand I think. Doesnt it only take a couple of months for a cornish to be ready to process? His whole farm is based on moving those electric fencing and have the animals follow each other in a manner that allows for maximum health of the soil. I havent bought any of his books but I think his thing is about healthy soil and clean food. Maybe it would be too labor intensive on a mass scale but that is something we are trying to get away from right? Anything on too large of a scale is not good for the land or the animals. PS he did not originate this idea it is ancient. We need more smaller farms and hopefully the eventual removal of factory farming entirely. He wants the govenment to step back and allow these small farmers to produce a healthy product using natural means.

 

[Longview]

To the OP: I am sure Joel himself will tell you that his methods will not work for everybody. That should be a given. It almost seems like you are taking Mr. Salatin's business personally.

There are whole communities of people, online and otherwise, who live close to the land, extremely self-sufficiently with methods like or similar to Mr. Salatin's.

I also know REAL people, in REAL life who raised "pastured chickens" for sale and profit. And do so very well, thank you.

http://www.arnoldsfarm.com/af/index.htm

 

[nnbreeder]

Some of the large producers that have went cage free in the UK have poultry houses that can be moved to new pasture when needed and they are pulled by a large 4 wheel drive tractor. The houses are of a curtain side design and skid mounted. Dogs are sometimes used for predator control but when they are not used losses are figured into the bottom line.

When they made the change from battery birds the farmers said that it was pretty lean at times but got better as they tweaked the operation.

Polyface is actually doing the same as was done pre chemical, with the twist of having much better information through modern science. Crop rotation, companian planting and natural fertilization is nothing new, just find older (pre 1950) books on agriculture and many of the methods are layed out in them.

 

[omegorchards]

I have read several of his books and implemented, with modifications, several of his production methods. I am just wondering why the caustic nature of your question? And why did you not provide any evidence of your own experiences? How many birds have you produced under a comparative system? Do you produce poultry commercially?

 

[AlienChick]

I just moved from Virginia and have met Joel and visited his farm.

His whole theory is just ROTATION. No matter what you have (chickens, large livestock, produce, etc).

It's an old theory, but it's still a good idea today.

Everyone's farm will be DIFFERENT; you take what you need and leave the rest!

I do not use chicken tractors because, for me, it's just too much work; mine free range.

However, I like Joel's idea of putting the hogs into the barn in the Spring after the barn animals have used the barn all winter and allowing the hogs to forage through the manure to turn it all over.

It's just like allowing the chickens to scratch through the garden area before planting to turn over the soil.

Joel has some good ideas; but you gotta simply take what YOU need and leave the rest.