Joel Salatin a Snake Oil sales man?

[400constantne]

I have been watching "Polyface Farm" with Joel Salatin. The chicken tractor just does not seem practical... at all. First of all, very few people actually own this perfect land that Joel is working with. Second of all, his ideas sound great on paper... but when put into practical work, it wouldn't really work at all. The "Chicken Tractor" requires you to pull it every 3 days... gas, and labor expese. The "Chicken Tractor" requires you to "train the chickens" to not roost under the tractor at night. The "Chicken Tractor" requires a movable electric fence that has to be taken down and set up every three days. There will be no protection against hawks, eagles, or really even jumping dogs. This set up is only good for the summer months, requireing you to have two chicken coops, of relatively equal size... Sorry, but this is all enthusiasm, with no practical sense.

 

[krcote]

You are all entitled to your own opinions, as am I. I say that the old farm method; of 5 fenced in acres, a good dog and a shot gun, is a much more efficient farming method. Chicken tractors are pure hype with no practicality whatsoever.

I am just challenging the status quo (and like chicken tractors, it is usually ridiculous).

Are you nuts? Efficient farming depends on your circumstances. I live on only 3/4 of an acre in a very suburban area and raised 50 Freedom Rangers in which to feed my family employing his basic ideas. I was able to move the tractor by myself daily to a fresh patch of grass, while protecting the flock inside a tractor made from supplies a already had. How is that not THE most efficient method of farming for me? Zero hype. Super practical. A closed mind is a terrible thing.

 

[JacksFlock]

You don't sell many books, or get invited many places to speak if what you're writing or saying doesn't work. It obviously works for him. If you don't like it, or it doesn't work for you, thats different.

 

[justinwrites]

I wouldn't say he's a snake oil salesman. He fully recognizes that his model may not work for you. It works for him, and he's pretty clear about that I think. He has some great ideas that can be applied and adapted as necessary. I've seen a lot of predation in our area with his style of tractors (man pulled on skid) with an electric fence. Hawks are very serious limitation here, Not insurmountable by making the run narrower. But dry ground out here has limited the effectiveness of those fences too.

Winter quarters not necessary here, or in VA for that matter, if the tractors are draft-free. And if I recall correctly Salatin only keeps a very few layers over the winter, starting new one early in the year.

I think the take away is that nothing works for everyone.

 

[Contrary]

Have you talked to any farmers who have actually tried it?

The original poster has obviously not talked to any farmers who are employing these methods, nor any accountants. I know several farms offhand that use the rotating pasture technique for layers with good success. For example, many of these "eggmobiles" are well suited for winter housing as well. The poultry netting can be expensed over a ten year period, and the coops over a 20 year period. For example, $1,000 in poultry netting is really just an extra $100 per year expense. This is easy cost to recover when you have 500 layers in a one acre fence. A search for "eggmobiles" or "mobile hen houses" on google will return many valid results.

All in all, farming isn't for everybody. It doesn't bother me when another fly-by-night poultry operation fails due to poor management because it is an extremely competitive business. It just means more customers for me. And yes, I am one of these successful pastured poultry operators.

 

[PattyO]

I have been to Polyface farm. Those meat bird tractors can be moved by hand I think. Doesnt it only take a couple of months for a cornish to be ready to process? His whole farm is based on moving those electric fencing and have the animals follow each other in a manner that allows for maximum health of the soil. I havent bought any of his books but I think his thing is about healthy soil and clean food. Maybe it would be too labor intensive on a mass scale but that is something we are trying to get away from right? Anything on too large of a scale is not good for the land or the animals. PS he did not originate this idea it is ancient. We need more smaller farms and hopefully the eventual removal of factory farming entirely. He wants the govenment to step back and allow these small farmers to produce a healthy product using natural means.

 

[Longview]

To the OP: I am sure Joel himself will tell you that his methods will not work for everybody. That should be a given. It almost seems like you are taking Mr. Salatin's business personally.

There are whole communities of people, online and otherwise, who live close to the land, extremely self-sufficiently with methods like or similar to Mr. Salatin's.

I also know REAL people, in REAL life who raised "pastured chickens" for sale and profit. And do so very well, thank you.

http://www.arnoldsfarm.com/af/index.htm

 

[400constantne]

You are all entitled to your own opinions, as am I. I say that the old farm method; of 5 fenced in acres, a good dog and a shot gun, is a much more efficient farming method. Chicken tractors are pure hype with no practicality whatsoever.

I am just challenging the status quo (and like chicken tractors, it is usually ridiculous).

 

[mong7769]

I think that Joel's methods are in fact useful. After all he gets a lot of money/lb for his product. I also think that as others have stated that no system is 'one size fits all'. All in All Joel Salatin has a LOT of good points in his books. And if he encourages even one person to be more self-sufficient (as he did me) why is that bad?

His focus is getting the soil on his farm sustainable more than the raising of animals. The animals are basically a means to an end that happens to be sellable.

It also seems that others have had good luck with his methods, so I would say that the opinion that he is a 'snake oil salesman' does not appear to hold much water . . .

 

[cassidy22]

We started our farm BECAUSE of Joel Salatin and his books. He gave us city kids the confidence to try something we didn't grow up around or know anything about. After a lot of research and planning, we now run our own farm,raising chickens. We used the pens he designed (shown in krcote's photo above) for a while.

It didn't require a tractor to move it. We did have to move it daily once the birds got big and became poop machines. They weren't predator proof, so we got a pair of Great Pyrenees, too. (Joel has guard dogs, as well, I met one when we visted him)

In the windy plains of Colorado, we discovered that the pens didn't survive long. We had to rebuild new ones every year. And the year I got pregnant, I couldn't move them, so my husband had to do all the work. So we didn a redesign. We now have "prairie schooners" like Schafer farms, just a much smaller scale, so we run less birds, and the wind won't take them away. Even my 3 yo daughter can move them. We use electric fencing, mostly to keep the sheep out of the chicken feed. And electric fences are so easy to move around.


Our egg layers are in a mobile chicken house built from an old F-100 truck. Joel's is built on an old train car. Yeah, we have to pull it with our other truck, but we only do it every 2-3 weeks. That way the chickens get to range the entire pasture, and again, the electric fencing keeps the sheep out of their feed. Using an old truck means it has truck tires and suspension, so it can move over ditches and puddles, when our old chicken house (a small a-frame on wheel barrow tires) would get stuck.

So yeah, we modified. And no, unlike Joel, we didn't get 400 acres handed down from our family. We live in Colorado - there are no trees, so we can't supply our own wood for projects or house heating. We only have 6 acres, so we can't run as many birds as he can.

But that's not the point. He taught us methods that are sustainable, and allow our birds to FREE RANGE instead of being caged. And he helped us get started. By passing on his knowledge and what worked for him, allowed us to try his methods, and then adapt them for our climate and our environment. And he's a nice guy. We try to model ourselves after that, too!