Joel Salatin a Snake Oil sales man?

[ChestnutRidge]

The losses to predators are less than you would expect when using the electric fencing. I'm only about 15 minutes from Salatin, and we do definitely have our share of predators here: hawks, foxes, coyotes, black bear, raccoon, skunk, opossum, and bobcats in addition to the domestic dog. Yet, the losses he sustains are within an acceptable limit which still allows him to make a profit with his layers and meat birds. I imagine that pastured poultry has different problems than poultry kept on the same land continuously. Perhaps what he loses to predators is made up for by not losing birds to some of the common diseases.

If you are interested in how electric fencing helps to prevent predator losses, you could read this article by another Virginian, Harvey Ussery: http://www.themodernhomestead.us/article/Electronet-1.html. From what I understand, the electric fencing not only acts as an initial deterrent, but the animals in the area actually learn to avoid the fencing over time, and there are fewer and fewer incursions. I'm not sure all of that is in Ussery's article, but he explains how that worked for him in his book.

I agree with the others that his methods are certainly unlikely to work for everyone. Nothing ever does, right? But his eggs are delicious - part of the reason why I started keeping chickens - and his meat and eggs are served in many of the restaurants around here. His business model is working for him. I wouldn't say it's snake oil. Perhaps it's more like rice or soymilk: many people find it fussy and laughable, but others are simply allergic to anything else.

 

[ChestnutRidge]

Check this out! I was just reading some old poultry books this morning and found this picture and caption in "The Principles and Practice of Poultry Culture" by John H. Robinson, 1910.

I imagine that the "colony poultry houses" they were moving around the farm were likely very similar to Salatin's "eggmobiles."

Robinson explains that it was economical, at least in 1910. Here's some of what he says about it.


You can read this book on Google Books because its copyright has expired. The book is here.

 

[400constantne]

You are all entitled to your own opinions, as am I. I say that the old farm method; of 5 fenced in acres, a good dog and a shot gun, is a much more efficient farming method. Chicken tractors are pure hype with no practicality whatsoever.

I am just challenging the status quo (and like chicken tractors, it is usually ridiculous).

 

[mountaintopchicken]

Quote: But do you have any idea how old the idea of movable housing is? Joel Salatin didn't come up with a lot of these ideas he uses, many he is just bringing back. If you start reading pre-WWll poultry literature you'll see how prevalent movable housing was. Many farms used the "Colony System" which was a series of movable houses spread out on the pasture. In the winter the Colony Houses were moved close together in the yard to make winter care easier.

When he was young 95 year old neighbor raised his layers in a pasture system, then moved them into the houses to produce.

If pasture is one of your farm's main assets, it will make sense for you to make use of it. It is labor intensive to move housing, but it is also labor intensive to clean housing. Housing that is moved needs less cleaning. Each farm has different labor dynamics, a different climate, different soil.... there are some farms where movable housing isn't going to be the best answer, but for many farms it is going to be the best answer. Especially those farms that are selling in niche markets like farmers markets and health food stores. It's an advantage to be able to advertise your eggs and birds as pasture raised and be able to charge more for that.

 

[krcote]

You are all entitled to your own opinions, as am I. I say that the old farm method; of 5 fenced in acres, a good dog and a shot gun, is a much more efficient farming method. Chicken tractors are pure hype with no practicality whatsoever.

I am just challenging the status quo (and like chicken tractors, it is usually ridiculous).

Are you nuts? Efficient farming depends on your circumstances. I live on only 3/4 of an acre in a very suburban area and raised 50 Freedom Rangers in which to feed my family employing his basic ideas. I was able to move the tractor by myself daily to a fresh patch of grass, while protecting the flock inside a tractor made from supplies a already had. How is that not THE most efficient method of farming for me? Zero hype. Super practical. A closed mind is a terrible thing.

 

[mong7769]

I think that Joel's methods are in fact useful. After all he gets a lot of money/lb for his product. I also think that as others have stated that no system is 'one size fits all'. All in All Joel Salatin has a LOT of good points in his books. And if he encourages even one person to be more self-sufficient (as he did me) why is that bad?

His focus is getting the soil on his farm sustainable more than the raising of animals. The animals are basically a means to an end that happens to be sellable.

It also seems that others have had good luck with his methods, so I would say that the opinion that he is a 'snake oil salesman' does not appear to hold much water . . .

 

[cassidy22]

We started our farm BECAUSE of Joel Salatin and his books. He gave us city kids the confidence to try something we didn't grow up around or know anything about. After a lot of research and planning, we now run our own farm,raising chickens. We used the pens he designed (shown in krcote's photo above) for a while.

It didn't require a tractor to move it. We did have to move it daily once the birds got big and became poop machines. They weren't predator proof, so we got a pair of Great Pyrenees, too. (Joel has guard dogs, as well, I met one when we visted him)

In the windy plains of Colorado, we discovered that the pens didn't survive long. We had to rebuild new ones every year. And the year I got pregnant, I couldn't move them, so my husband had to do all the work. So we didn a redesign. We now have "prairie schooners" like Schafer farms, just a much smaller scale, so we run less birds, and the wind won't take them away. Even my 3 yo daughter can move them. We use electric fencing, mostly to keep the sheep out of the chicken feed. And electric fences are so easy to move around.


Our egg layers are in a mobile chicken house built from an old F-100 truck. Joel's is built on an old train car. Yeah, we have to pull it with our other truck, but we only do it every 2-3 weeks. That way the chickens get to range the entire pasture, and again, the electric fencing keeps the sheep out of their feed. Using an old truck means it has truck tires and suspension, so it can move over ditches and puddles, when our old chicken house (a small a-frame on wheel barrow tires) would get stuck.

So yeah, we modified. And no, unlike Joel, we didn't get 400 acres handed down from our family. We live in Colorado - there are no trees, so we can't supply our own wood for projects or house heating. We only have 6 acres, so we can't run as many birds as he can.

But that's not the point. He taught us methods that are sustainable, and allow our birds to FREE RANGE instead of being caged. And he helped us get started. By passing on his knowledge and what worked for him, allowed us to try his methods, and then adapt them for our climate and our environment. And he's a nice guy. We try to model ourselves after that, too!

 

[mountaintopchicken]

We now have "prairie schooners" like Schafer farms, just a much smaller scale, so we run less birds, and the wind won't take them away. Even my 3 yo daughter can move them. We use electric fencing, mostly to keep the sheep out of the chicken feed. And electric fences are so easy to move around.



Our egg layers are in a mobile chicken house built from an old F-100 truck.

I'd love to see pics of these!

 

[galanie]

Ok, so someone who has not tried any of his methods says they don't work. Why does this sound oh too familiar to me? It could be because of all I've seen on online comments in general about how this or that doesn't work because it doesn't "look" like it should or "I can't explain it scientifically." There was once a time when no one could explain anything scientifically and yet now we can.

Mr. Salatin only tells what is working for him. He never says he invented any of this stuff. What is he selling? Books and eggs and meat. Simple enough not to buy either without badmouthing the guy. I've read his stuff and watched documentaries with him in them. He's enthusiastic, to be sure, but I don't see him saying that it's right for everyone, only that anyone can do it so long as they have what he has. And you know, not all of us do. If I had a few hundred acres with just the right stuff on it I could raise cattle w/out a lot of feed. But you know, I don't. That doesn't mean anyone advocating doing so is selling snake oil.

 

[Contrary]

You are all entitled to your own opinions, as am I. I say that the old farm method; of 5 fenced in acres, a good dog and a shot gun, is a much more efficient farming method. Chicken tractors are pure hype with no practicality whatsoever.

I am just challenging the status quo (and like chicken tractors, it is usually ridiculous).

Joel, you're a bloody genius!! What a great publicity stunt!! Got people's attention, eh? Maybe more fodder will buy your books