Jungle Fowl

[Ntsees]

The eclipse molt is not restricted to pure jungle fowl. I do not know where they originated but originator did a very poor job of researching subject yet it is still being passed on as fact.

True. The eclipse molt is also seen in the gray, green, and ceylon. Even hybridized birds (referring to chicken x rjf) will still eclipse and a hybridized bird with high amounts of pure genes will be almost indistinguishable from the actual birds.

 

[JimArcher]

I lived in Laos for 20 years and kept Jungle Fowl. Mine were sourced from farmers and other people who had land bordering wild habitat. The wild roosters would mate with the domestic or crossbreed hens when the hens were foraging in the woods. The pure wilds, in Laos, have a very compressed tail (side to side) that is more obvious in the hens. The clocks have fewer long sickle feathers on the tail than do domestics or crossbreds. None of my crossbreds, which were often more than 50% wild! ever went into eclipse plumage. A friend of mine had a pure wild rooster which did go into eclipse plumage with a shriveled comb and more hen-like behaviour.
I would be interested in your sources of information on this subject. Mine is only from personal experience in native country for wild chickens. Those in Laos had black legs and nice white ear lobes. Eggs were a cream color.
I am currently working up all my negatives and photos (I now have a negative scanner) so maybe I will try to post some pictures of my "Jungle Fowl".
I would like to hear more about your experiences and knowledge of Jungle Fowl.
Thanks.

 

[Ntsees]

You're lucky to have lived for a while where they are native. I've never been to southeast Asia to witness them in their natural habitat and have only relied on information learned through the internet. I do hear that wild specimens do tend to have a very compressed tail side to side and their tails can be folded tightly. As for the fewer long sickle feathers on the tail of males, that is a key feature that I, and others, look for to help distinguish a pure from a non pure. When ever I look at internet pictures, the tail coverts is the first clue I look at: a count of 4 lesser tail coverts and sometimes a tiny 5th one, that has to be short and rounded. If it's long and pointy like the main sickles, it automatically counts as a hybrid in my book no matter how gorgeous the bird may look. If you want to see pictures of eclipse hybridized birds, just google search "red junglefowl eclipse". Although you'll get some actual pure eclipsed birds, you'll also get the hybrids and the non-pure ones can be distinguished by those exhibiting a large comb and/or many long sharp tail coverts (you've stated that the combs shrivel up during eclipse and I've come to learn that that is also important). If you're an rjf enthusiast and is in the United States, I assume you already know about the murghi subspecies.

I've shared this link before on birds from Thailand, and I always enjoy viewing it:

 

[centrarchid]

Which subspecies is the primary source for domesticated chickens?

 

[Ntsees]

Which subspecies is the primary source for domesticated chickens?

I have no idea. The subject does not interest me, but while in my personal on-going search for more info in regards to distinguishing pure birds from hybrids, I do recall reading some time ago that the gallus subspecies was the sole contributor to modern day chickens with no inclusion of genes from the murghi subspecies. But this subject about which subspecies did contribute to the modern chickens appear to be on debate and still on-going.

Whether it's an acceptable work or not, this appears to be the latest:
http://www.biology.sc.chula.ac.th/TNH/archives/v13_no2/97-106 Pramual.pdf

 

[JimArcher]

Thanks.
By the way, I worked in Bangladesh for 2 years and "Murghi" means "chicken". That is Bengali language. I started a duck hatchery in 1973; based on the Ancient Chinese Rice Husk Incubation System. We imported Thai laying ducks which have a hefty % of Khaki Campbell blood. Day-old ducklings. Was a very successful project.
I never saw any wild chickens there, but I did in Laos.
One thing I noted about the Wild Chicken in Laos was that the young cockerels would carry their wings outside of the saddle feathers. I assume to indicate their submissiveness and not being a threat to the rooster in the flock.
One year I had a number of RJF birds that I had raised from my crossbred parent stock. I think it was in October Shen all of a sudden they all started flying out of the yard and heading down the road. I think it was dispersal time. I managed to get most of them back home and they had their wing clipped.
A member of the Japanese Royal Family (a prince) spent a lot of time in a Laos as he is studying the RJF in Laos. He visited one of my RJF sources outside of Vientiane. I think he took blood samples. That source is no longer there. He had some pures. The hens would not brood their chicks on the ground, but rather wanted them to climb up to roost with momma. He had to be vigilant.
I am a big fan of RJFs.
Once I was walking in the woods and a wild hen started cackling and trying to lure me away from the area. I know she had chicks or eggs, but never found them.

 

[centrarchid]

Thanks.
By the way, I worked in Bangladesh for 2 years and "Murghi" means "chicken". That is Bengali language. I started a duck hatchery in 1973; based on the Ancient Chinese Rice Husk Incubation System. We imported Thai laying ducks which have a hefty % of Khaki Campbell blood. Day-old ducklings. Was a very successful project.
I never saw any wild chickens there, but I did in Laos.
One thing I noted about the Wild Chicken in Laos was that the young cockerels would carry their wings outside of the saddle feathers. I assume to indicate their submissiveness and not being a threat to the rooster in the flock.
One year I had a number of RJF birds that I had raised from my crossbred parent stock. I think it was in October Shen all of a sudden they all started flying out of the yard and heading down the road. I think it was dispersal time. I managed to get most of them back home and they had their wing clipped.
A member of the Japanese Royal Family (a prince) spent a lot of time in a Laos as he is studying the RJF in Laos. He visited one of my RJF sources outside of Vientiane. I think he took blood samples. That source is no longer there. He had some pures. The hens would not brood their chicks on the ground, but rather wanted them to climb up to roost with momma. He had to be vigilant.
I am a big fan of RJFs.
Once I was walking in the woods and a wild hen started cackling and trying to lure me away from the area. I know she had chicks or eggs, but never found them.

I have had game hens do the lure you away trick which I compared to a killdeer at the time. The cock would often some in quickly and attempt to distract you by being load and flashy making so you had to consider two very different targets and neither looks like the nest full of eggs.


Have you seen much in the way of parental behavior in male RJF's. My adult male games have the capacity to do everything except incubate eggs. I wonder where the behavior came from.

 

[Ntsees]

Darn. If those escapees survived and bred with the pure ones, pure specimens would be hard to find due to introgression. But I guess it can't be helped even if you didn't want it to happen.

Quote:

I'm guessing you must have heard this call: http://macaulaylibrary.org/audio/113660

 

[centrarchid]

Audio sounds like indicating ground threat. Calls more complex than equivalent produced by domestics.

 

[JimArcher]

My escapees would have been a very small drop in a very large bucket. When Lao farmers go to their upland fields they take their chickens and other livestock. The hens produce hybrid young due to wild roosters mating with them. The reverse rarely occurs. Crossbred hens might survive in the wild, but the roosters would not likely be able to compete with the pure males. I doubt my hens would have made it. This hybridization has been going on for centuries in Laos. The wild birds still look and act wild. There may be some transfer of genes, but I think the effect is negligible. I got most of my birds from a farmer Who lived at the edge of a wild area. Pretty much all his birds were crossbreds. It was interesting that his hens seemed to be real domestics. I think he sold most of his hybrids. People especially wanted the roosters to use for lure roosters.
Tameness, or domesticity, is a heritable trait. The birds which adapt to living with man do not make good wild birds. I saw this on a large government game farm I worked on. We used to seek out nests of wild ringneck pheasants to cross in with our farm stock. It produced a much wilder bird (also harder to raise). I think the hybrids generally stay home as that is how they have been raised. Food, housing, flock...I am not sure why my pullets were flying out of the yard. It may have been dispersal as October is when the rice is harvested in Laos.
One of my hybrid cocks was sterile. One hen layed eggs with thick brittle shells. I wonder if hybridization had anything to do with that.