Just checked out the election results...

[Q9]

Quote:
True about Republican spending; they're mostly hypocrites. However... You're saying we should keep corporate welfare? And I always though cocoa, coffee, and sugar grew a lot better in South American/Caribbean countries. If there weren't protectionist tariffs making South American and Caribbean sugar too expensive, the cost of sugar would go down. If we killed farm subsidies, they would actually have to produce enough to meet demand, rather than get cash they aren't earning.

As for the Dems cutting the deficit...

In light of the past four years, that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard from you. Also, party of common sense?! "Hmmm... I GOT IT! Let's take cash OUT of the economy, then put it back into the economy and tax it as it passes through! That should work!" (Note: Bush DID request the first bailout; I'm just pointing out that the Dems have just as much of a lack of sense as the Republicans.)

I'm not going to argue with you about the deficit spending Q. The stimulus was to get some jobs created which it did. The health care plan is actually deficit neutral and will save a substantial amount of money over the next 20 years.

If we kill farm subsidies all it will do is raise prices for the end consumer. I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that our farmers were not producing enough. That must be the reason for the bread lines I see everywhere. Our government subsidizes a lot of our food industry which is why we have affordable food. If they have tariffs on sugar that's great. It's not like sugar is something we need here real badly. Besides they should have steep tariffs on ALL imported goods. That might bring some jobs back to America. Then this thread wouldn't even be a topic.

In a civilized country people take care of each other. If you don't have family or church then the burden falls on the government.

By "civilized" I assume you mean decaying and on the verge of complete implosion followed by a break-up, or, in a best-case scenario a severe, crippling depression to correct for Fed interference.

That tax money that made up the stimulus? Taking that destroyed jobs. Far more jobs than it could ever possibly create. As for the tariffs, have you ever heard the phrase "free trade?" Those tariffs prevent us from cheaply importing crops that DO NOT GROW WELL here. The Gulf States and SoCal are really the only ones that can grow sugar, and Southern Florida is one of the only areas that can grow cocoa. Even still, they grow far better in the Caribbean and South America. Farm subsidies ARTIFICIALLY lower prices, which kills the incentive for farmers to produce more; personally, I'd rather have them produce more than to have an illusion of abundance. We had affordable food long before illegal subsidies; we would have it after subsidies as well.

As for your last comment, you left out private charities.

 

[Dunkopf]

You're entitled to your opinions Q. The stimulus didn't destroy any jobs. It used money that hasn't even been collected yet. Unlike states or personal budgets. The Fed doesn't have to stay within what the have coming in. They spent money to create jobs.

I've read the same stuff as you and I reject it.

 

[BlackBart]

Quote:
Keep on dreaming. The spending isn't going to stop. Look at historical spending from the party of NO. Historically the party of NO runs the debt up and cuts taxes, particularly for the wealthy. The party of common sense usually spends less and gets the deficit down. This time around the mess that George left was just too big to clean up in 2 years.

They outspent the dems 5 to 1 and only gained 60 seats. 30 of those seats should have never been held by a dem in the 1st place. The pubs now hold all the rural areas in the country. The funny part is that those are the areas that will get hit the hardest by their scorched earth policies.

All the producers of major staples. Milk, eggs, butter, cocoa, cheese, wheat, sugar, coffee all came out today and announced that they will no longer be able to keep prices at a reasonable level. Government subsidies are going to be cut and food will be going up a lot. Farmers will not be able to get the extra money to run their farms. America will become a non entity in farming as well as manufacturing. Yep the world is turning flat.

Oh by the way. Be sure to tell me when you get that big tax cut because they are cutting the farm bill.

I think like almost every Country that is carrying a huge debt, it didn't happen over night. It just got swept under the rug until it couldn't be hidden anymore.

I don't know what to make of this article from a Boston University Economist ? Amount seems high to me but what do I know?
Curious to see what Canada's actual debt is not the number they keep expecting us to believe.

Eventually it will pop out of the woodwork somewhere and then eveybody will be pointing fingers at each other.

But as always, joe public pays, one way or another.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ary-actual-us-government-debt/article1773879/

 

[wolftracks]

Quote:
I am so with you right now!

 

[Q9]

Quote:
It ain't opinion anymore than your position is opinion. "Opinion" is a personal belief that is completely relative to a person. We have "positions," meaning one of us is right and the other is wrong.

You're right! The Fed doesn't have to stay within what it has coming in! It can print cash until hyperinflation sets in and then we end up like Weimar (sp?) Germany or Zimbabwe. Of course, inflation has the same effect as taxation, it's just an invisible tax. We don't "pay" anything, but the feds get more cash and we have less real wealth.

You ought to check out "Whatever Happened to Penny Candy?" By no means the absolute best, but it gives a good, entry-level understanding of how economics actually works. Otherwise, try "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt or "Meltdown" by Thomas E. Woods.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
It ain't opinion anymore than your position is opinion. "Opinion" is a personal belief that is completely relative to a person. We have "positions," meaning one of us is right and the other is wrong.

You're right! The Fed doesn't have to stay within what it has coming in! It can print cash until hyperinflation sets in and then we end up like Weimar (sp?) Germany or Zimbabwe. Of course, inflation has the same effect as taxation, it's just an invisible tax. We don't "pay" anything, but the feds get more cash and we have less real wealth.

You ought to check out "Whatever Happened to Penny Candy?" By no means the absolute best, but it gives a good, entry-level understanding of how economics actually works. Otherwise, try "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt or "Meltdown" by Thomas E. Woods.

Actually things aren't as black and white as you think. For every bona fide expert opinion you come up with I can come up with one that is almost the exact opposite. When I was 17 I was right about everything. As I got older I figured out that there are 2 sides to every coin. By the way I assume that printing money is just a figure of speech for you. Unlike Germany before Hitler came along. The fed doesn't print money. It's just numbers on a screen. They call it a stimulus because it's supposed to stimulate growth, which it did. Once business is running again there will be more jobs. Hopefully our new Congress wont reverse the finance bill. If they don't this country may stand a chance. If not you're going to be SOL. I'll be gone by then.

I don't always put JMO after each of my postings, but when I don't it should be implied.

JMO

 

[australorpchick]

Quote:
Is this sarcastic? I am lost, LOL! I would be scared to death to live in California right now.

He's probably referring to the fact that they were able to defeat another wacko that had no qualifications except a ton of money. They also kept a good Senator.

Apparently you're not from California. I'm glad I moved.

 

[RabbitMage]

Quote:
I am, and I agree with what was said. I'm also especially thrilled about the Lieutenant Governor.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
I am, and I agree with what was said. I'm also especially thrilled about the Lieutenant Governor.

I lived in San Jose for 5 years and the SLO town for 3 years. I love California. Beautiful place. I hope your new Governor can straighten out the mess. Hope he doesn't end up in the same position as the POTUS with a state that is so far in the ditch that he can't get it out.

Good Luck

 

[Q9]

Quote:
It ain't opinion anymore than your position is opinion. "Opinion" is a personal belief that is completely relative to a person. We have "positions," meaning one of us is right and the other is wrong.

You're right! The Fed doesn't have to stay within what it has coming in! It can print cash until hyperinflation sets in and then we end up like Weimar (sp?) Germany or Zimbabwe. Of course, inflation has the same effect as taxation, it's just an invisible tax. We don't "pay" anything, but the feds get more cash and we have less real wealth.

You ought to check out "Whatever Happened to Penny Candy?" By no means the absolute best, but it gives a good, entry-level understanding of how economics actually works. Otherwise, try "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt or "Meltdown" by Thomas E. Woods.

Actually things aren't as black and white as you think. For every bona fide expert opinion you come up with I can come up with one that is almost the exact opposite. When I was 17 I was right about everything. As I got older I figured out that there are 2 sides to every coin. By the way I assume that printing money is just a figure of speech for you. Unlike Germany before Hitler came along. The fed doesn't print money. It's just numbers on a screen. They call it a stimulus because it's supposed to stimulate growth, which it did. Once business is running again there will be more jobs. Hopefully our new Congress wont reverse the finance bill. If they don't this country may stand a chance. If not you're going to be SOL. I'll be gone by then.

I don't always put JMO after each of my postings, but when I don't it should be implied.

JMO

Yes, printing money is a figure of speech.

It achieves precisely the same effect, though. INFLATION. The dollar has lost 95% of its value since 1913, the founding of the Monster from Jekyll Island.

Of course you can find a contradictory expert opinion; I can find an expert opinion that says Bush is a shapeshifting alien lizard person (No joke! I've seen that claimed in all seriousness before!). However, the expert opinions for my side have been right consistently while the Keynesian side (yours) has been consistently WRONG. Keynesian economists said there was no bubble. Well, it popped. Keynesian economists never saw the Depression coming. Mises, founder of the Austrian School of economics, DID. He was the only economist in the '20s to predict it. Gerald Celente, Austrian economist, has been consistently correct in his economic forecasts. Peter Schiff predicted this crash 4 years ago and got laughed at. The ones who laughed at him are obviously wrong.