just got a pair of canadian geese need help

[maransfan16]

good i think i'll be turning them loose in the next few days to interact with everything else if they will stay around

 

[Jharper]

If you call either agency and tell them that you have pet geese with no permits and ask for a permit they will come kick your door (arrest).
There is no LEGAL remedy to your situation except to leave those geese alone and DO NOT CLAIM OWNERSHIP. They can still live there-unconfined.

FOLLOWING Q & A COPIED FROM "USFWS WATERFOWL SALE & DISPOSAL" PERMIT APPLICATION:

The only way to get a permit for any ownership of domesticated wild waterfowl is if certification/transfer paperwork is supplied by the seller (USFWS 3-186), at the time of the transaction thus creating a paper trail leading back to the point of origin (birth) of those particular individual birds. The seller must have a Fed permit for the 3-186 to be valid. Requirements for "sale or disposal" of waterfowl are two fold. One must have a Fed permit and also a State permit. The Fed-"Waterfowl Sale and Disposal" permit is the big one that allows a seller to sell a bird with paperwork so the buyer may then get a permit and eventually sell his birds. State requirements vary by state but usually shadow Fed requirements.
A Federal Migratory Bird Waterfowl Sale and Disposal permit will authorize you to sell, donate, or otherwise dispose

of to another person, properly marked, captive-reared migratory waterfowl and their eggs. A permit is not required to

sell or dispose of properly marked, captive-reared mallards. You should review Title 50 Parts 10, 13, and 21.25 of the

Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). You are responsible for reviewing and understanding these regulations

before you request and accept a permit. These regulations can be found on our website at:
http://www.fws.gov/permits/ltr/ltr.html. Below is a review of several sections pertinent to a Federal Migratory Bird

Waterfowl Sale and Disposal permit.

1. Do I need a permit to possess captive-reared migratory waterfowl?

No. Any person may, without a permit, lawfully acquire properly marked, captive-reared migratory waterfowl

of any species, alive or dead, or their eggs, and possess and transport such birds or eggs and any progeny or eggs

solely for his own use, subject to the following conditions:

(a) Such birds, alive or dead, or their eggs may be lawfully acquired from holders of valid Waterfowl Sale and

Disposal permits.

(b) All progeny of such birds or eggs hatched, reared, and retained in captivity must be physically marked as

defined in 21.13(b). (Also see question 3 below.)

(c) No birds or eggs or progeny may be disposed of by any means, alive or dead, to any other person unless you

have a valid Waterfowl Sale and Disposal permit.

(d) Lawfully possessed and properly marked waterfowl may be killed, in any number, at any time or place, by

any means except shooting. Such birds may be killed by shooting only in accordance with all applicable hunting

regulations.

(e) When you acquire any waterfowl, alive or dead, from a Waterfowl Sale and Disposal permittee, the permittee

must give you the original of the completed Form 3-186, Notice of Waterfowl Transfer or Sale, providing all

information required by the form and method or methods by which individual birds are marked.

Other regulations governing the possession of waterfowl can be found in 50 CFR 21.14.

2. Can I take waterfowl from the wild?

No. You may not take migratory waterfowl or their eggs from the wild and you may not acquire wild waterfowl

from another person. Anyone who transfers waterfowl to you must have a valid Waterfowl Sale and Disposal permit.

3. Do I need to mark waterfowl that I propagate?

Yes. All live migratory waterfowl (including progeny) possessed in captivity under authority of a valid

Waterfowl Sale and Disposal permit must, prior to 6 weeks of age, be physically marked using one of the following

methods:

(a) Removal of the hind toe from the right foot.

(b) Pinioning of a wing by removing the metacarpal bones of one wing or a portion of the metacarpal bones

thereby rendering the bird permanently incapable of flight.

(c) Banding of one metatarsus with a seamless metal band.

(d) Tattooing a readily discernible number or letter or combination thereof on the web of one foot.

4. What documentation is required when I transfer waterfowl to another person?

Each time you transfer waterfowl to another person, you will be required to complete a Form 3-186, Notice of

Waterfowl Transfer or Sale. This form will be supplied by the Service with your permit for you to photocopy as

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT A FEDERAL

MIGRATORY BIRD WATERFOWL SALE AND DISPOSAL PERMIT

2

needed and is also available on our website at: http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-186.pdf. You must furnish the original of

the form to the person acquiring the birds or eggs, retain one copy in your files as a record of your transaction and

mail two copies of each form completed to your Regional Migratory Permit Office on or before the last day of each

month.

5. Do I need a migratory bird permit to raise and sell muscovy ducks?

No. You do not need a waterfowl sale and disposal permit or other Federal permit to raise and sell muscovy

ducks. Muscovy ducks are now protected under the MBTA due to natural range expansion from Mexico into the

United States. Although we amended the regulations at 50 CFR 21.14 and 21.25 to restrict possession and sale of

muscovy ducks, we intend to revise those regulations. Therefore, we are not issuing permits or restricting sale,

purchase, or possession of muscovy ducks at this time. Release of muscovy ducks to the wild outside their natural

range is prohibited. More information is available at http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds (scroll to 50 CFR 21.54

Muscovy Duck).

6. Do I need a State permit in addition to a Federal permit to sell migratory waterfowl?

Your permit is not valid unless you also are in compliance with State requirements. This means that if your

State requires you to have a permit to sell or transfer migratory waterfowl, you must hold a valid State permit in order

for your Federal permit to be valid. It is your responsibility to make sure you comply with State permit requirements.

7. Will anyone inspect my records or my waterfowl?

By accepting a Federal Waterfowl and Disposal permit, you authorize an agent of the Service to enter your

premises at any reasonable hour to inspect the wildlife you hold, your books and records. (See 50 CFR 13.47)

8. What is required to transfer my permit to a new location?

Any address change or other circumstances that affect your permit must be reported to your Regional Migratory

Bird Permit Office in writing within 10 days so your permit can be amended. (See 50 CFR 13.23)

9. Will I be required to keep records of my activities?

Yes. You must maintain accurate records of operations on a calendar-year basis. Your records should reflect

the species of waterfowl, total number at the start of the year, method of marking, number raised, sold or traded, and

the total number at the end of each year.

10. Will I be required to submit an annual report of activities?

Yes. You will receive an annual report form from your Regional Migratory Bird Permit Office. The report

form can also be found on our website at: http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-202-2.pdf. This report must be completed

and submitted to your issuing office by January 10 of each year.

11. How do I renew my permit?

A renewal letter or form and annual report form will be sent to you at least 60 days prior to the expiration of

your permit. If you want to renew your permit, you must return the completed renewal to your Regional Migratory

Bird Permit Office at least 30 days prior to the expiration of your permit and include a copy of your current State

permit, if one is required. If we receive your renewal request at least 30 days prior to the expiration of your permit,

your permit will remain valid beyond the expiration date for the activity authorized on your permit until a decision on

your renewal is made. If we receive your renewal request fewer than 30 days prior to expiration of your permit and

we are unable to process your request before the expiration date, your permit will expire and you will no longer be

covered for your activity. If you allow your permit to expire before requesting renewal, you may be required to

submit a new application. (See 50 CFR 13.22 and 13.11(c))

(3-200-9) 9/30/2010

 

So this is how you get a permit to keep Canadian geese?

I think the best thing you could do is either try to get ahold of the former owner, or call the US Fish and Wildlife Service and ask about a permit, but DO NOT mention you already have them. You might be able to fill out something like this and then they'd be legal to own for you.

This one is to destroy nesting sites and removal of them? I thought it said that this was to keep them legally. I will call the main number anyways. I think there is one just like it, too.

 

[JJRS]

The Q & A I posted is FEDERAL law as it relates to migratory waterfowl listed under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA) that are kept domestically. The FEDERAL permit (Waterfowl Sale & Disposal Permit) is only required if one intends to sell MBTA listed birds. The FEDERAL permit number from the seller, and 3-186 form create a paper trail to prove the birds were not stolen from the wild. The FEDERAL permit is not required for simple ownership however, one must be in possession of a properly completed 3-186 receipt. (Here is a link as an example- http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-186.pdf). This form when filled out by a properly permitted seller and a buyer (no FEDERAL permit required for purchase without resale privilege) proves the birds were obtained legally.

There is also STATE law as it pertains to domesticated wildfowl (MBTA birds) etc. I cannot speculate on any other STATE'S laws as I do not need to know them. In my STATE and most STATE'S as I understand, a STATE BREEDER PERMIT is required just to possess the MBTA birds. A STATE SHOULD NOT issue a state permit without submission of copies of all 3-186 forms at the time of application as proof of FEDERAL compliance for all birds possessed. (It is possible that a STATE AGENCY may issue a "whatever it is called" permit without proper FEDERAL documentation because all they are concerned with is collecting the $. Oftentimes that person collecting permit fees does not know the law nor do they care because they are employed to work a cash register. If this were to happen the FED's still have a excellent criminal case because the MBTA birds belong to them first and foremost.)

Both STATE and FED require itemized, detailed, annual inventories from all permitted breeders to keep track of who has what and who has what they should not. Part of annual reporting is submitting personal information of persons who purchased birds to both STATE and FED for redundant tracking of possible illegal activity.

There is no retroactive FEDERAL permit one may obtain to legalize illegally obtained birds. Proof of FEDERAL compliance is the primary requirement to obtain STATE permits.

Bottom line is if one's paper trail is illegitimate or inaccurate it is real easy to have one's "goose" cooked by the FED'S.

There is no real easy way to learn the in's and out's of the legal requirements other than to study and research the laws. I know people who have kept birds for years who did not know all the laws. I do not claim to be some sort of supreme all knowing expert either but I will keep studying.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jharper]

The Q & A I posted is FEDERAL law as it relates to migratory waterfowl listed under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA) that are kept domestically. The FEDERAL permit (Waterfowl Sale & Disposal Permit) is only required if one intends to sell MBTA listed birds. The FEDERAL permit number from the seller, and 3-186 form create a paper trail to prove the birds were not stolen from the wild. The FEDERAL permit is not required for simple ownership however, one must be in possession of a properly completed 3-186 receipt. (Here is a link as an example- http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-186.pdf). This form when filled out by a properly permitted seller and a buyer (no FEDERAL permit required for purchase without resale privilege) proves the birds were obtained legally.

There is also STATE law as it pertains to domesticated wildfowl (MBTA birds) etc. I cannot speculate on any other STATE'S laws as I do not need to know them. In my STATE and most STATE'S as I understand, a STATE BREEDER PERMIT is required just to possess the MBTA birds. A STATE SHOULD NOT issue a state permit without submission of copies of all 3-186 forms at the time of application as proof of FEDERAL compliance for all birds possessed. (It is possible that a STATE AGENCY may issue a "whatever it is called" permit without proper FEDERAL documentation because all they are concerned with is collecting the $. Oftentimes that person collecting permit fees does not know the law nor do they care because they are employed to work a cash register. If this were to happen the FED's still have a excellent criminal case because the MBTA birds belong to them first and foremost.)

Both STATE and FED require itemized, detailed, annual inventories from all permitted breeders to keep track of who has what and who has what they should not. Part of annual reporting is submitting personal information of persons who purchased birds to both STATE and FED for redundant tracking of possible illegal activity.

There is no retroactive FEDERAL permit one may obtain to legalize illegally obtained birds. Proof of FEDERAL compliance is the primary requirement to obtain STATE permits.

Bottom line is if one's paper trail is illegitimate or inaccurate it is real easy to have one's "goose" cooked by the FED'S.

There is no real easy way to learn the in's and out's of the legal requirements other than to study and research the laws. I know people who have kept birds for years who did not know all the laws. I do not claim to be some sort of supreme all knowing expert either but I will keep studying.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks that helps a lot. What if the goose is crossbred with a domesticated one. Would you still need papers?

 

[JJRS]

Following is a quote from USFWS website:
A species qualifies for protection under the MBTA by meeting one or more of the
following four criteria:
(1) It (a) Belongs to a family or group of species named in the Canadian convention of
1916, as amended in 1996; (b) specimens, photographs, videotape recordings, or
audiotape recordings provide convincing evidence of natural occurrence in the United
States or its territories; and (c) the documentation of such records has been recognized by
the American Ornithologists Union (AOU) or other competent scientific authorities.
(2) It (a) Belongs to a family of group of species named in the Mexican convention of
1936, as amended in 1972; (b) specimens, photographs, videotape recordings, or
audiotape recordings provide convincing evidence of natural occurrence in the United
States or its territories; and (c) the documentation of such records has been recognized by
the AOU or other competent scientific authorities.
(3) It is a species listed in the annex to the Japanese convention of 1972.
(4) It is a species listed in the appendix to the Russian convention of 1976.
In accordance with the Migratory Bird Treaty Reform Act of 2004, we have not listed
species whose occurrences in the United States are strictly the result of intentional human
introduction(s). For more information:
http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/RegulationsPolicies/mbta/MBTAProtectedNonprotec
ted.html

I would say since a hybrid is not a "species" (and it is definitely non-native) but a hybrid the answer is no.

 

[Jharper]

Following is a quote from USFWS website:
A species qualifies for protection under the MBTA by meeting one or more of the

following four criteria:

(1) It (a) Belongs to a family or group of species named in the Canadian convention of

1916, as amended in 1996; (b) specimens, photographs, videotape recordings, or

audiotape recordings provide convincing evidence of natural occurrence in the United

States or its territories; and (c) the documentation of such records has been recognized by

the American Ornithologists Union (AOU) or other competent scientific authorities.

(2) It (a) Belongs to a family of group of species named in the Mexican convention of

1936, as amended in 1972; (b) specimens, photographs, videotape recordings, or

audiotape recordings provide convincing evidence of natural occurrence in the United

States or its territories; and (c) the documentation of such records has been recognized by

the AOU or other competent scientific authorities.

(3) It is a species listed in the annex to the Japanese convention of 1972.

(4) It is a species listed in the appendix to the Russian convention of 1976.

In accordance with the Migratory Bird Treaty Reform Act of 2004, we have not listed

species whose occurrences in the United States are strictly the result of intentional human

introduction(s). For more information:
http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/RegulationsPolicies/mbta/MBTAProtectedNonprotec

ted.html 

 
I would say since a hybrid is not a "species" (and it is definitely non-native) but a hybrid the answer is no.

Cool thanks for all the info.

 

[leanback]

Thank you, for rule info I didn't know but what if one is injured and can not fly? All family left today, flew wherever they go and now it is by itself.

Rule is ok I agree, If all areas counties had resources to help injured ones makes since.

Any Advice,. INJURIOUS WILDLIFE lol thought that meant if injured ? Not

 

[Jharper]

Thank you, for rule info I didn't know but what if one is injured and can not fly? All family left today, flew wherever they go and now it is by itself. Rule is ok I agree, If all areas counties had resources to help injured ones makes since. Any Advice,. INJURIOUS WILDLIFE lol thought that meant if injured ? Not

If its injured it needs taking care of by DNR. You can call them up and they can come and get it. Unless you are a licensed wildlife rehabilitator.

 

[JJRS]

I will throw out an idea here. There is another option that I have not seen mentioned by anyone, ever, anywhere on this site: Leave the wild birds alone and let nature take care of them as it will.

 

[leanback]

If on big lake somewhere maybe, in town city lake it is hard not to pay attention and want to help.
Today again, family is back with the one all still seems fine just idea knowing it can't fly ...... no plans to take it away
from family or try to help wouldn't know what I was doing. DNR no chance I tried that one in past. (answer not a good one)

I wish I could ignore, newbie
If one has seen a duck or geese all feathers pulled out by others, you may change your mind. I'm still watching it and learning.

Respectfully,
Kim