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Just hatched chick has wierd locomotion

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Chicken Keith, Jun 1, 2007.

  1. Chicken Keith

    Chicken Keith Chillin' With My Peeps

    Hi everyone:

    I'll intro myself elsewhere and another time, because I need your immediate advice about a strange characteristic in a chick who's about 7-8 hours old.

    The chick is a Buff sebright I think, just hatched it in my TX-6 incubator this morning.

    It seems to have trouble lifting its head and it seems to move backward like a crab or ant lion insect. It has trouble making its legs move it forward, AND being able to lift its body. I don't think this is splayed leg, and not Marek's either.

    He(?) tries to lift his head, but his wings go forward and his rear wiggles from side-to-side, all the while his locomotion tends to make him go backwards or burrow his butt in the pine shavings.

    I have a heat lamp on the brooder, temp hovering between 95-98 deg. I feed my chicks 1:20 sugar water for the 1st 3 days. This chick just hatched, no need for water and food yet.

    If you look down on the chick it reminds me of those insects called an ant lion, the chick moves backwards trying to get to its feet, and his little wings are splayed forward, like a child puts his arms out fwd and squats to keep from falling backwards.

    I'm hoping this is not a balance (inner ear) problem as I've heard of this rare genetic defect (Hutt mentions it in his 1949 book, Genetics of the Fowl)
     
  2. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    feeding your chicks sugar is ill advised on so many levels when there is no cause to do so...it will often "crash" their system (put it into to a kind of "overdrive" and the backlash can be severe)...get proper bird eletrolytes/vit if a bird is poorly and due to this is unable to drink resulting in dehydration issues which the electrolytes will address (do not give electrolytes indiscrimitely either!) For your poorly bird I believe two or three drops of POLYVISOL (liquid childrens vitamins) will help...give in beak once daily and then taper off the next week.
     
  3. chrissieg

    chrissieg Chillin' With My Peeps

    I hate to quote the obvious, but he's not just trying to poop is he? All mine to a backward wiggle with wings out when they're little!!
     
  4. Chicken Keith

    Chicken Keith Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:No disrespect meant in my question but do you recommend this based on extensive knowledge of animal medicine, or personal experience? The ratio of 1 cup of sugar to 20 cups of water would be ok, I think. Any higher ratio would be cause for carb crash alarm.

    This advice is offered by many hatcheries and veterinary schools throughout the country saying it helps to reduce the stress of shipping. While my chicks were hatched here at my home and not shipped I just didn't want to take any chances. They are doing fine right now.

    Maybe it wasn't that good an idea. [​IMG]
     
  5. Chicken Keith

    Chicken Keith Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:There's a difference in a chick trying to poop and this little guy. This little guy's actions would indicate he's pooping an invisible poop a mile long [​IMG] It looked like a nervous condition.

    No one responded to my emergency question in a timely manner, so I had to take initiative and instinct and do a diagnosis on my own. [​IMG] It turned out to be congenital splayed leg, which means it is a genetic propensity, not post-hatch induced. I brood all my chicks on pine shavings, not newspaper. I made a tiny hobble for him and Judy McKinney (thanks Judy!) kindly responded with advice on how long I should keep the hobble on. The hobble is working like a charm.

    So, we're good, all's well now. Just wish somebody could have responded to this emergency faster. Didn't have to be the correct info, but a little empathy would've been nice.
     
  6. Queen of the Lilliputians

    Queen of the Lilliputians Chillin' With My Peeps

    Apr 5, 2007
    Maine
    I'm fairly new at this myself, got my first group of babies in the brooder right now, so I wouldn't have had a clue about yours. Glad to hear you figured out what's going on. Sounds like you have lots of knowledge there that will be great on this board.

    I'm so glad to hear your baby is doing well with the hobble! Keep us updated.

    -Meghan
     
  7. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    ...as you yourself stated...this advice is sometimes given in particular situations (stress as with shipping where the chick is also often dehydrated to some degreeand one has nothing else)... in this particular instance where the chick is only a few hours old or amy other situation where ther is no obvious cause then dont try to fix it when it isn't broke (and yes this warning about sugar has come from the veterinary literature... sugar>birds and the specific word "crash" was used in the warning on a vet to vet forum group.) Also the same warning has been made on sugar water (not to use indiscriminitely) on rehabbers sites...I am not saying never to use sugar water however in cases of suspected dehydration and stress that electrolytes are more suitable...
    No one responded to my emergency question in a timely manner, so I had to take initiative and instinct and do a diagnosis on my own. It turned out to be congenital splayed leg, which means it is a genetic propensity, not post-hatch induced. I brood all my chicks on pine shavings, not newspaper. I made a tiny hobble for him and Judy McKinney (thanks Judy!) kindly responded with advice on how long I should keep the hobble on. The hobble is working like a charm.

    ...this forum is not meant to replace a vet in any way shape or form (and even with a vet it is often not practical to be helped in a "timely manner")
    ...I am usually not at this location often (I usually post at the EZ location of BYC but do try to keep an eye here when possible) and was trying to be helpful and my apologies if I came off "un-sympathetic"...(I was on my way out the door when your post caught my eye) Please feel free to browse my articles , here is the direct link to the Emergency articles I have collected
    http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=emergencies
    and you will notice one in particular entitled "Rehydration"... I also recommend you review the "First Aid Kit" thread so you can make up one for yourself as often these things happen right at the times a vet and stores are unavailable / closed. (BTW...not all splayed leg is genetic...there are several things which can cause this ... )​
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2007
  8. Chicken Keith

    Chicken Keith Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:Gotcha, was not looking for anyone to substitute as a "vet." I was simply hoping others who had seen this sort of problem in their experience. I got neither a positive or negative reply. But I realize this is a blog of amateurs which is why I'm here, because I be an amateur too. But seeking a vet for a splayed leg condition is a little extreme in my situation, I think, although some people would probably go that far. I like chickens a lot, but this is, after all, a baby chick. I will give it all the compassion and aid my money can buy. And regrettably, while my love and compassion is unbounded, my money is definitely limited. I have kids to put thru college.

    Please feel free to browse my articles, here is the direct link to the Emergency articles I have collected
    http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=emergencies
    and you will notice one in particular entitled "Rehydration"... I also recommend you review the "First Aid Kit" thread so you can make up one for yourself as often these things happen right at the times a vet and stores are unavailable / closed.

    I'm sorry, I really don't mean to be rude or condescending, but can you pls tell me your credentials as a pet health expert? I really would like to know, because until I know this, I judge your information at your website irrelevant to my situation. Your information appears relevant to certain avian species, parrots, wild birds, etc. Not sure it's relevant to most gallinaceous species, though. A parrot and a chicken are as different as a racoon and a cat. Again, pls forgive me if my tone sounds snobbish, I just don't know anything about you, to feel comfortable with your advice about a subject I was NOT seeking help on.

    (BTW...not all splayed leg is genetic...there are several things which can cause this ... )

    Right, again. Let me respond by restating my point: Not all splayed leg is caused by newspaper under foot! One cause CAN be genetic.

    ...I am usually not at this location often (I usually post at the EZ location of BYC but do try to keep an eye here when possible) and was trying to be helpful and my apologies if I came off "un-sympathetic"

    Although I accept any and all apologies if they are needed, there's no need for you to apologize. You judged something I was doing with my birds as being potentially harmful & I respect that. But I can't just take your word at face value because it conflicts with those words of intelligent others--so it's a verbal stalemate. Organisms do not all process nutrition the same way. I would hate to think how my human digestive system would process a raw zebra carcass with fur and bone, but a lioness in the serenghetti does a good job at it. A parrot eats a different diet than a chicken.

    Seriously, maybe we just got off on the wrong (splayed) foot, Diana [​IMG] Shall we start over?​
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2007
  9. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    Jan 11, 2007
    I'm sorry, I really don't mean to be rude or condescending, but can you pls tell me your credentials as a pet health expert? I really would like to know, because until I know this, I judge your information at your website irrelevant to my situation. Your information appears relevant to certain avian species, parrots, wild birds, etc. Not sure it's relevant to most gallinaceous species, though. A parrot and a chicken are as different as a racoon and a cat. Again, pls forgive me if my tone sounds snobbish, I just don't know anything about you, to feel comfortable with your advice about a subject I was NOT seeking help on.

    The info at my site is mainly (99,9%) from veterinary literature specific to poultry if you had bothered to browse the threads you would have seen that with the exception of the CASE STUDIES threads the content of my "board" is ONLY links to articles mainly written by PhD poultry experts from Extension, University and Poultry Science sources in addition to veterinary avian specialists etc....direct links and no "articles" from me personally...
    A parrot and a chicken are as different as a racoon and a cat.

    This statement is incorrect...read the articles specific to poultry and then go back and review the specific articles I choose to post (sometimes it is only a particular section) and you will see they are equally applicable to poultry... the info I have up on rehydration etc. is equally applicable for poultry (or I would not have posted it.)
    You obviously have not been to the (orginal ) EZboard BYC forum or you would know me and know I research everything to the nth degree in the veterinary literature to back any statements I make...Browse the A-Z disease thread (the summaries were not made by me) and under each summary is a direct link to the corresponding article in the MERCK Vetrinary Manual for instance to compare that summary to and gives more in-depth veterinary info with treatment and dosage for meds info (specific to poultry>I'll trust that over any statement made by a layman any day) as an example of what the goal is of my board. I made that site as a sort of "chicken library" and in the Case Studies thread are several saved BYC threads also so members who had an emergency would have an easier to access way of finding relevant articles in a time of great stress when unable to find help elsewhere. I understand your hesitancy but anyone who knows me knows I do not play "doctor" however I do find the relevant veterinary based articles relevant to their problem...
    But I can't just take your word at face value because it conflicts with those words of intelligent others--so it's a verbal stalemate. Organisms do not all process nutrition the same way.

    See the Sticky at (EZ)BYC for poultry nutrition articles
    http://p072.ezboard.com/fbackyardchickensfrm13
    (First thread)
    an more extensive article links to poultry specific nutrition information (all poultry specific and written by veterinary and extension Poultry PhD Specialists)
    http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=nutrition
    (refer to the nutrition category fo specific articles on poultry nutritional disorders and factors contributing to them)
    ...if you do not wish to make use of the extension, professional and veterinary based articles I have on my board (each one of which I have read and specifically chosen) and can not get to a vet and do not wish me to post on your questions for help prefering the advice of other members experienced based knowledge then that is your perogative and I wish you luck. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2007
  10. KrisRose

    KrisRose Chillin' With My Peeps

    Mar 9, 2007
    Davison, MI.
    Chicken Keith- if you realize that this is a forum of amateurs then why are you questioning Diana's credential's? You want to know her "extensive knowledge of animal medicine" and "credentials as a pet health expert"??? And then finish up with an " I don't mean to be rude and condescending"!!!!! [​IMG]
     

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