Just lost a hen, help with cause?

[Goldenpheasantlover]

I went out to check on the girls this morning and one was lying on the ground some way away, shaking pretty badly. We tried to get her to drink but she wouldn't take anything by herself.

I assumed it was dehydration as the skin on her legs looked pretty flaccid and shriveled. We brought her in, put her in a cool spot, and I tube fed her water. I then got concerned about egg binding as we'd lost another hen around this time of year to that, but I couldn't feel anything when I did the glove and vaseline inspection.

She seemed to perk up a little, but then went downhill very very rapidly. She convulsed and lot more, did a very watery white poo, and then made pained noises as she passed.

My concern is I know botulism and Marek's can cause convulsions, so I want to make sure that it was just dehydration and not something else. I feel awful losing her to something like that but the sudden heatwave isn't something we're used to here.

Symptoms:

• Floppy, kept lying down but could walk this morning
• Not interested in food or water
• Shaking, mostly in the head but it did spread to her wings and body
• VERY dark red face, wattles seemed to be trying to disappear, rest of her face might have been swollen or shrunken but hard to tell?
• No weird smells, no gasping, no panting, no lung noises
• Skin and flesh on legs and feet seemed shrunken and dehydrated
• Body temp seemed above average but not by too much, no internal temp taken
• Had been treated for a cut on her side from the cockerel from a few weeks ago, seemed to be healing nicely
• All other birds appear to be fine

 

[micstrachan]

So sorry for your loss.I hope others chime in, but I’m wondering if she bled out internally (hemorrhage). The only way to know for sure is to perform a necropsy (you could post photos here for help in figuring it out) or have one done by your saltwater lab. Do you feed your flock many high carb treats like scratch?

 

[Goldenpheasantlover]

We give them a handful or two of wild bird seed every day, they're really greedy buggers. Can those sorts of things cause internal bleeding? I haven't heard of that before, I have been trying to give them less 'treat' food though

 

[micstrachan]

Not directly that I know of. But too many treats can lead to fatty liver, which can result in liver hemorrhage.

 

[Kathy Golla]

Maybe heat stroke?

 

[rebrascora]

What breed is she? Heavier breeds are more prone to Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome and the bird seed could cause that. How many chickens do you have to share those 2 handfuls of seed? Personally I would cut them out or limit to half a handful every other day. Their layer feed (pellet or crumble) should provide everything they need without added extras.
How was her body condition? Did/does she feel quite plump or skinny? Skinny would suggest Mareks, plump would more likely be Fatty Liver. For information, the haemorrhaging is not actually internal bleeding but more a loss of sera through the liver into the body cavity so the blood becomes thick and viscous and harder to circulate.

If water was available she is unlikely to have died of dehydration unless she was haemorrhaging or prevented from accessing the water. Do they have shade in the run or are they in full sun all the time?

Watery white poop can indicate a blockage of the gut, which could be due to egg binding, internal laying, salpingitis, ascites or tumour but could also just be down to drinking more due to this hot weather.
The convulsions/shakes could be due to toxic build up if the gut is blocked and waste unable to pass (the white poop is urates from the kidney which exits into the cloaca so a blockage of the gut would not affect it) or heart attacks due to thickened blood from haemorrhaging.

Cutting her open and taking photos or sending her for a professional necropsy would be the way to find out.

 

[Goldenpheasantlover]

@rebrascora

She was an Ixworth, a pretty large breed. The handfuls are shared between 7 birds, cockerel included. She felt a good weight, not over or under weight.

I did do a probe with a finger and couldn't feel an egg blocked anywhere, but it was the first time I'd done it so I could have missed something. The run is well shaded with two drinkers, but the issue is both the drinkers are metal and might have run out for a period (they're not huge, and I'm not the only one who checks the drinkers and feeders throughout the day).

I don't have too many tools for an necropsy (and don't have the funds for a professional service) but I can give it a go.

 

[SurferchickinSB]

@rebrascora

She was an Ixworth, a pretty large breed. The handfuls are shared between 7 birds, cockerel included. She felt a good weight, not over or under weight.

I did do a probe with a finger and couldn't feel an egg blocked anywhere, but it was the first time I'd done it so I could have missed something. The run is well shaded with two drinkers, but the issue is both the drinkers are metal and might have run out for a period (they're not huge, and I'm not the only one who checks the drinkers and feeders throughout the day).

I don't have too many tools for an necropsy (and don't have the funds for a professional service) but I can give it a go.

Oh, sad, sounds like maybe she got dehydrated and had a heat stroke. Animals and humans can go without food, but lack of water will do us in pretty quickly, some can pass in under a day.

 

[Goldenpheasantlover]

As bad as it sounds, I'm really hoping it was just heat stroke and nothing contagious. I'm definitely going to be keeping a closer eye on the drinkers personally from now on so hopefully this doesn't happen again.

Does anyone have advice with extra ways to keep chickens cool? I've tried having a pool of water out for them but they all hated it. When they're in the coop is the main issue as it gets pretty hot in there and when they go in to lay I should imagine that's the most dangerous time for them.

 

[rebrascora]

You don't need any special tools, just a sharp knife and or scissors and perhaps some pruning shears.... they don't have to be sterile because you are not going to eat her. I put an old feed bag on a garden table and work outdoors. A bucket of soapy water and an old towel to wash your hands in and your phone to take photos. If you nip the skin where the breast bone ends (with her lying on her back) and cut through it across the body then there is no chance of cutting into the intestines (unless you are incredibly heavy handed). I tend to pluck the chest/abdomen first, so I can see the skin and what I am doing clearly. From that initial cross cut, carefully go deep enough so that you break through the skin and tissue into he abdominal cavity. Normally the internal organs inside are moist but there should be no obvious fluid in there. If there is fluid, then that would be ascites and could suggest Fatty Liver Haemorrhage. If you also see lots of thick yellow fat on the abdomen and surrounding some of the organs, that is another indication of the disease. The colour and texture of the liver would be the final confirmation for that being the cause of death..... fatty liver will have a slightly yellow oily cast to it and when you get hold of it, your fingers will break into it quite easily.
The liver is located just below the front of the rib cage, so if you carefully cut across the abdomen with the scissors and then up the sides until you hit the ribs and then use the pruners to snip through the ribs on each side until you reach the top and snip through the breast bone at the top you should be able to lift that whole section of the rib cage off and see the liver with the gizzard and heart below and the lungs are tucked into the rib cage in the back. There should be no appreciable blood if the bird has been dead for more than 30 mins as it solidifies, so it is not a messy job. I've done them 2-3 days later and it hasn't been smelly, so it is not overly unpleasant once you get over the emotional connection..... I tend to put a sock over the birds head whilst I am working. Obviously the gut and oviduct are in the lower abdomen. To expose those, carefully cut down each side of that initial cross cut towards the vent. You should be able to see and feel if there is something amiss with those organs. The ovary is also behind the gut just below the liver and you should see clusters of follicles (glossy bobbles) ranging in size from tiny globes to ripe egg yolks if she was actively in lay and ovulating. I usually palpitate the length of the gut for round worms..... you can actually feel them through the gut wall.... and open up to check any sections where I feel anything unusual or suspicious. I do this part last as it is obviously smelly opening the gut and exposing the contents. You don't have to do that if you don't want to. It just helps to know if worming your flock may be something to consider. I am not concerned if I find the odd round worm, but a significant infestation would be disconcerting.

I hope that gives you some guidance on what you are aiming to do. Taking photos of all the organs both in situ and removed, will help us to help you figure out what happened.
I will link a thread where we share such photos and discuss possible diagnosis which might prove helpful and you might be best to post any photos there where people will not be offended by the graphic nature of them....