Keeping warm in winter

[WI chickens]

You can read many threads on the topic and often the response goes something like this. They're fine at such and such a temperature. Chicken don't feel the cold, they've got all those lovely feathers to keep them warm.

The assumption being it seems chickens developed feathers to combat the cold. As I mentioned in an earlier post, what is a tropical creature doing running around with a quilt.
If you view a cross section of a chickens feathers and the position of the filo plumes that govern the feathers orientation and you know a bit about thermodynamics you can see that feathers can provide excellent skin shade and that helps keep them cool.

So again, your contention is that feathers don't keep a chicken warm?

 

[3KillerBs]

If you view a cross section of a chickens feathers and the position of the filo plumes that govern the feathers orientation and you know a bit about thermodynamics you can see that feathers can provide excellent skin shade and that helps keep them cool.

I have speculated that this is why Brahmas, who have all the features that shouldn't contribute to heat-tolerance -- pea combs, foot feathers, heavy feathering, etc. -- are strangely heat-tolerant up to a point.

My sample size of birds is limited, but my Brahmas have been almost entirely weatherproof -- ignoring blistering hot sun, snow, cold rain, and even tropical storm winds. Except on the most blistering hot days as temperatures approached 100F (38C), when the honors went to my only Mediterranean types, the Brahmas were the first out into the weather and the last in out of the weather regardless of the condition of the weather.

Before I sold her, I had even seen Dumpling go out, look back for the rest of the flock, realize they weren't coming, go back to them, go out again, and so on -- as if unable to understand why the the others were seeking shelter.

Feathers, apparently, can insulate against either heat or cold.

 

[Shadrach]

So again, your contention is that feathers don't keep a chicken warm?

No it isn't. My contention is that chickens didn't develop feathers primarily to keep warm. They didn't know they were going to be living in sub zero conditions when they started growing them. It's an accident/chance that they will also keep them warm enough to survive in a hostile climate.

 

[3KillerBs]

No it isn't. My contention is that chickens didn't develop feathers primarily to keep warm. They didn't know they were going to be living in sub zero conditions when they started growing them. It's an accident/chance that they will also keep them warm enough to survive in a hostile climate.

Evolution never *knows* what features will be need under what circumstances. Primitive Archosaurs would never have known that the insulating protofeather filaments on their skin would one day permit the eagle to soar.

Nonetheless, the wolf becomes the chihuahua and Gallus gallus become Gallus domesticus.

 

[NatJ]

You can read many threads on the topic and often the response goes something like this. They're fine at such and such a temperature. Chicken don't feel the cold, they've got all those lovely feathers to keep them warm.

The ones I see say, "chickens do not feel cold at __ temperature, because those feathers are keeping them warm." Of course chickens can feel cold at SOME temperature, but they are not shivering at 50 degrees (when people in Florida put on jackets and get worried about their chickens.) And most chickens look perfectly content at 32 degrees (when their water gets icy, and many chicken keepers get very worried.) By "look perfectly content," I mean they act normal, and do not sit around puffed up.

The assumption being it seems chickens developed feathers to combat the cold.

It appears that their feathers DO combat the cold, no matter what other purposes the feathers may also have.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, what is a tropical creature doing running around with a quilt.

Probably keeping its body temperature higher than the air temperature.

 

[saysfaa]

I think chickens feel the cold, as in they can tell the difference between a warmer day (or area) and a cooler day (or area). Also, I think they can feel cold as in be uncomfortable or stressed or however you want to put it.

And that it doesn't matter very much what breed they are.

What does matter is whether they are acclimated or not. Similar to people.

When we moved a hundreds of miles south, the kids got asked a LOT, why they weren't wearing a coat. They would say, "Because it isn't cold."

My son in-law grew up on a Carribean island. Shortly after he arrived, we asked what the temperatures were down there. He not only didn't know, he had trouble figuring out why we would ask. Eventually, we figured out it was because the temperatures changed so little that nobody paid any attention to them.

He suffered with the cold the first winter, despite multiple alpaca and cashmere sweaters, thermals, arctic parka, arctic boots, multiple alpaca and wool socks, etc, etc, ... in September.... wasn't even beginning to be cold yet. Each winter was better; now he is about as acclimated as the rest of us.

We seem to be typical...

https://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica fact file/science/cold_acclimation_human.php

I found that looking for an article I read many years ago about people who lived in the antarctic who were too warm if they had more than a short sleeve tee shirt on if it got up to 32F (0C). Or the article about Russians on a beach - the picture had people dressed like we would if it was 70F (21C) - shorts, tanktops, swimsuits, but it was (I don't remember exactly), 40's, I think.

It isn't just people. There are published studies of the physiological differences between cold acclimated and not cold acclimated cattle, hamsters, gerbils, sparrows,...

And chickens.

So far, I haven't found much on differences in feathers but there are differences in fat, various metabolism measurement, ...

This is particularly interesting... chickens acclimated to warm temps were exposed to cold and shivered. Cold acclimated chickens were exposed to the same temps and did not shiver.
Link to the study

Hm, I think I need to be more consistently careful about what I say to people in the south who are worried about cold snaps.

 

[3KillerBs]

What does matter is whether they are acclimated or not. Similar to people.

When we moved a hundreds of miles south, the kids got asked a LOT, why they weren't wearing a coat. They would say, "Because it isn't cold."

My son in-law grew up on a Carribean island. Shortly after he arrived, we asked what the temperatures were down there. He not only didn't know, he had trouble figuring out why we would ask. Eventually, we figured out it was because the temperatures changed so little that nobody paid any attention to them.

He suffered with the cold the first winter, despite multiple alpaca and cashmere sweaters, thermals, arctic parka, arctic boots, multiple alpaca and wool socks, etc, etc, ... in September.... wasn't even beginning to be cold yet. Each winter was better; now he is about as acclimated as the rest of us.

It took me nearly 5 years here in central NC before I said the words "It's not that horribly hot today, it's only 90." When I lived in Massachusetts I would get ill from the heat at 85.

The years I worked in a factory that had neither heat nor AC I'd come home and put on a sweater in the 78F air conditioning because I was used to 95 or more (it was sometimes hotter inside than out).

Hm, I think I need to be more consistently careful about what I say to people in the south who are worried about cold snaps.

I try to be mindful when people in cool climate areas are worrying about cooling off their birds when it's in the mid-80's. Neither they nor their birds are used to it.

 

[WI chickens]

For myself, I'm convinced there are breeds that handle heat, or handle cold, or both, better than other breeds. Acclimating is important for sure, but it also makes sense to me that a large bird with very thick feathers like an Orloff or a Brahma will handle the cold better than a Fayoumi that is small and slender. Can I prove it beyond doubt? No, but I'm not bothered by that fact. I'm content that I am raising chickens that are healthy and happy in sometimes very frigid weather.

I think "chickens don't feel cold" is a strawman. "Chickens aren't bothered by the cold" I have heard, and a number of things like that, but I've never heard anyone say they are incapable of feeling cold temperatures.

 

[aart]

4 pages of debate over defining a term that is arbitrary at best,
like a lot of other 'terms' in chickeneering, and life in general.
SMH.
Seek not the black or white, but revel in the gray.

 

[GardenDmpls]

A couple of things I thought of: Icelandic chickens. A landrace of chickens that developed in Iceland and are good at foraging. Thinking it must be a bit cold in Iceland and that they are well adapted to it. One article did mention that they have a lot of gene variations not found in other chickens. Second, mention is made of feathers, but I am wondering about fat and its distribution under the skin of various breeds. Might make a difference in how warm they are.