Kimiko (AB discussion contd. here from the other post as requested)

[dlhunicorn]

AB discussion contd. here from the other post as requested

(AB = antibiotic)
... responsibility as to how the shared information is used is up to the individual member...​

 

[Suellyn]

Quote:
Maybe we should sticky YOU

(joke)!!

Your website is very informative & a great resource for both IMMEDIATE help/info, and for in-depth research/study. I guess my point was to have some basic "punchlists" here on THIS website, as a "jumping off point" for BYC Members. Certainly links (like one to your library!) should be included if permissable, and Members should be encouraged to use the "Search" feature to sort thru applicable past threads. (!!!!)

But for newbies and/or people with emergent situations, the BYC sticky posts are often the first thing they read, and are of immense value. I agree with you that trying to "sticky" a library's worth of topics is a ridiculous notion, which is why I feel condensing it down into 3 or 4 of the MOST COMMON veterinary-related questions/scenarios would be most valuable. BASIC INFO with links to additional details & discussions.

Kimiko... Welcome to BYC

!! Yes, when I first saw this topic I didn't know what a "Kimiko" was, but wanted to read about antibiotics so "clicked on it" anyway.....

!! Great to have a Vet on board, I'm sure there are others, perhaps they could be coaxed out....

 

[chookchick]

Kimiko--just wanted to extend a welcome and say that your information is very well written and extremely valuable to all of us. I have followed this thread back and don't think anyone has thanked you for the effort you have put into this discussion. Dlhunicorn has been around for a long time and put out a lot of effort to help owners with disease/injury problems. I hope you will continue to hang around and give us your input--we really do appreciate it!

 

[Renee]

Oh, thanks to all of you for bringing this issue up and for presenting the problems associated with it. I would really like to see a sticky that summarizes the debates and gives some advice, particularly on the use of wormers and antibiotics. Even if opposing views were presented, it would be such a help! Doing searches is too time-consuming.

From the ignorant point of view (that's mine):

Yes, I know about over-use of antibiotics in people and in commercial meat production... But when you are new to chickens and frantically searching for what to do, you run across so much information you get overloaded. It seemed to me, when I first started keeping chickens last year, that everyone needed Terramycin and Wazine in their medicine chests, and that every chicken sniffle was a dread disease that would endanger the national chicken industry as well as all of the wild birds in my yard. I bought both, just in case.

Now that I have had a year to read, and have lived through chicken diseases with the help of dlhunicorn, sammi, suellyn, speckledhen, and many others, I have some perspective. I have tossed the Terramycin (but kept the eye ointment) and I doubt I will ever use the Wazine. I have a closed flock, so I will cull a chick that is terribly ill but not one with the sniffles. I will use an antibiotic as a last resort or if a vet says I should for a specific bacteria.

I am so thankful to all of you with specialized knowledge who have chosen to share it with the rest of us.

 

[dlhunicorn]

a reminder

I would really like to see a sticky that summarizes the debates and gives some advice, particularly on the use of wormers and antibiotics. Even if opposing views were presented, it would be such a help! Doing searches is too time-consuming.

... this board (as most others) is monitored by the FDA...
... as most medicines are off-limits (FDA) for (food purposes)chickens (except off-label under strict veterinary discretion in the USA >this recquires that the veterinarian have personal knowledge of the bird >that means an office visit) then it can sometimes be difficult for our professional members to give that form of advice on forum... as long as the info is contained within member postings there should be no repercussions to the board owner...
This is another reason I maintain my library as an (international) reference so the information remains accessible.​

 

[Renee]

Yes, and it is a treasure.

I get it now.

 

[Suellyn]

Quote:
... this board (as most others) is monitored by the FDA...
... as most medicines are off-limits (FDA) for (food purposes)chickens (except off-label under strict veterinary discretion in the USA >this recquires that the veterinarian have personal knowledge of the bird >that means an office visit) then it can sometimes be difficult for our professional members to give that form of advice on forum... as long as the info is contained within member postings there should be no repercussions to the board owner...
This is another reason I maintain my library as an (international) reference so the information remains accessible.

Ok, gotcha... Certainly don't want NiftyChicken or any Mods or Members to incur any liabilities!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So where is the "legal line" drawn for a STICKY??

My thought process in "Summary Stickies" is to stay away from SPECIFIC DIRECTIVES of diagnosis, prognosis, or perscribing. Which may sound like a useless sticky, BUT if verbage is correct and is general guidelines for making an informed decision ON YOUR OWN, then I feel it could be quite "doable" and useful....

Example: Someone has a chicken that just sneezed 5 times and has had runny poop for 2 days, and was just advised by local feed store to put terramycin in the water... The "Sticky In My Head

" would give them a starting point: What do antibiotics DO (kill bacteria, not viruses, etc.)? Do they all work the SAME, can I use ANY antibiotic (nope, they work differently and are more or LESS effective for different things!)? If I can buy it at my local feed store, then it's probably perfectly safe, right (Ummmmmm.. no, there are risks...)?

THAT kind of thing, with links for further reading/info....

Thoughts/input????

 

[dlhunicorn]

some very helpful links to meds (includes considerations in usage ):


http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=toxicologydisease&action=display&num=1160171324

http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=toxicologydisease&action=display&num=1159532507

http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/jtua_poultry.asp
American Association of Avian Pathologists Guidelines to Judicious Therapeutic Use of Antimicrobials in Poultry

 

[sammi]

Suellyn posted:

"1.) Basic triage/emergency care: what to do FIRST... By this I mean directions on basic supportive care and evaluation. There are countless posts explaining how/when to seperate, give supplemental heat, vitamins or pedialyte, protein or hi-energy food, and then how to monitor and further evaluate the bird's needs/condition. Kind of a "I have a sick/injured bird, what do I do FIRST?" sticky."

sometimes I feel as tho I am posting the same thing in every post..
like a pre-recorded message..to ask for symptoms and other info, and suggest first step ER care...

I know there is a guideline for how to post for help ..(giving symptom description, age of bird...etc..)
and another sticky of basic first steps, or added to guidelines, like this would be helpful.

IF people would read the instructions before posting.
many times they don't.
so..the need for repeated basic instructions goes on..

my question is..if I think a particular med is needed..
should I give that suggestion, or not?
often, time is of the essence in ER posts.

the problem is, that we can't see or examine the bird, see it's living conditions, etc..and often people can't post pics..
we can only give our best guess based on information given by the poster.
further..these instructions need to be as simple and easy to follow as possible..since for many..the scientific studies, FDA laws, etc..make their eyes glaze over.
They just want to help, or save, their bird.

 

[dlhunicorn]

it depends... I am extremely hesistant to give specific med advice (a vet is always preferable) in many cases >so often the same symptoms occur with many diseases or there is too little info etc etc.) ... also members are often too quick to want to medicate (the need to do SOMEthing) ... in those cases I refer to articles (I try to choose those which I think they can understand or that has specific info I feel might be applicable such as meds and dosage)...
If it is pretty "clear cut" and the member is in need of specific advice (dosage med etc) or if a med or action has been advised which I feel is detrimental then I will post on that... alll preferably with a solid source URL to accompany it . It all depends on the situation the poster and the problem (and the amount and quality of information given!)
IMHO there are simply too many variables in many situations to be able to give a "cut and dry " answer in a sticky although there are several good articles (ER) > unfortunately not ONE specific one that has all the answers (otherwise I would have posted it)