Lady feeding raptors - law on my side?

[spolicas]

Wow... some people are so rude. Please don't let the few spoil the bunch. I think perhaps the one needing to get a life is the one saying it... IMO

I agree with you, people attracting extra birds of prey to your area is no fun. Not that any of us can control what our neighbors do, nor can they control us. I do think you are justified in using whatever means necessary to protect your animals. That being said, I adore birds of prey. Hubby and I search for them in the skies and always pay rapt attention when we see them.... but not near our chickens! My opinion of them changes when I am home and fearing for my own animals.

Thank you for the encouragement!

I was contacted by a Florida Fish & Wildlife Officer today. He told me that the fireworks use permit, to use that I would just need to go down to the fireworks store and fill out an affidavit for my operating farm certifying I would use these ground-to-air in order to protect my crops and livestock.

The officer also told me I could use air cannons and blow horns to ward of the raptors.

He agreed with me that this lady is crazy, but what she is doing is not illegal, although legally I have the right to farm and under the right to farm I am able to protect my property, livestock, and agriculture.

I was also told that I should contact the U.S. Department of Agriculture or the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service and obtain a right to kill permit; not that I would use it, but it is always good to have all options on the table when practicing diplomacy with others.

Overall, I had a good conversation with the office, he was knowledgeable and led me to the right resources to lawfully deal with the issue at hand.

 

[centrarchid]

spolicas,

How big is your flock and what is its value?

 

[spolicas]

spolicas,

How big is your flock and what is its value?

My flock used to be 5 Buff Orpington (1 rooster and 4 hens) , 4 Australorps (4 hens), and 5 Orpinglorps (1 rooster and 4 hens). I am now down to 4 Buff Orpington hens - after hawk attacks over the last year or so (since the lady has begun feeding...)

There was one time I had over 30 chicks, then they all disappeared (not sure it was a hawk though).

I purchased my flock at $4.00 per chick; meaning I spent about $36.00 for the Buff Orpingtons and Australorps. I would sell chicks for $3.00/piece, meaning that was about $90.00 I lost in chick sales. The Orpinglorps were going for $8.00/piece, meaning I lost $40.00 on that. In total I've lost about $166.00. < that's if my math is correct!

 

[dainerra]

are you sure that they were hawk attacks? Not many species of hawk are going to take on birds that large. In over 20 years of chickens, I can count on 1 hand the number of chickens I know of that have been taken by hawks and all of those have been either very young chicks or bantams. Even a small scrap of brush is often enough for a bird to escape a hawk attack so most attempts are unsuccessful anyway and even an unsuccessful attempt leaves all of the chicks much more wary. Losing a second bird (let alone 9!) would be unheard of.

Add in the loss of 30 chicks and my money is on a different type of predator.

 

[centrarchid]

My flock used to be 5 Buff Orpington (1 rooster and 4 hens) , 4 Australorps (4 hens), and 5 Orpinglorps (1 rooster and 4 hens). I am now down to 4 Buff Orpington hens - after hawk attacks over the last year or so (since the lady has begun feeding...)

There was one time I had over 30 chicks, then they all disappeared (not sure it was a hawk though).

I purchased my flock at $4.00 per chick; meaning I spent about $36.00 for the Buff Orpingtons and Australorps. I would sell chicks for $3.00/piece, meaning that was about $90.00 I lost in chick sales. The Orpinglorps were going for $8.00/piece, meaning I lost $40.00 on that. In total I've lost about $166.00. < that's if my math is correct!

Concern I have is that if everyone with a small flock where to start taking action against raptors, the hawks in many areas would have nowhere to even land. For me, at some time I have to put a value on the raptor since they are public domain. My flock is considerably larger and probably more valuable, at least to me. Despite that, I have reservations about killing or harassing raptors especially if they are not even on my property. Those raptors are worth more to the interested public than is my flock. If flock is to be protected, then take measures that operate only on your property and minimize risk to tax payers raptor. Many options exist to control losses of your birds and many will be flat out more effective than your present approach which is effective in short-term only and will appear to be little more than a pissing contest with neighbor.

In my line of work, a different group of birds (cormorants, herons, kingfishers, ospreys and bald eagles) that target fish can consume a good number of fishes in a single day yet repellents as you are contemplating are only effective when they are set off while predator is present. Such methods are ineffective when they are not operational and hawk will not schedule it's hunting forays for when you are home after work and on weekends. Birds also acclimate to propane cannons. Big fish producers that can loose $10,000's in a single 24-h period do find such efforts worthwhile as flocks move through but with small numbers it is simply not worth effort.

 

[spolicas]

are you sure that they were hawk attacks? Not many species of hawk are going to take on birds that large. In over 20 years of chickens, I can count on 1 hand the number of chickens I know of that have been taken by hawks and all of those have been either very young chicks or bantams. Even a small scrap of brush is often enough for a bird to escape a hawk attack so most attempts are unsuccessful anyway and even an unsuccessful attempt leaves all of the chicks much more wary. Losing a second bird (let alone 9!) would be unheard of.

Add in the loss of 30 chicks and my money is on a different type of predator.

Yes, I am sure. I have seen these hawks drop out of the sky and kill my birds - at least seven I saw, the other's I knew the identification of the attack from the previous hawk attacks I had seen. The hawks never took them away, they just killed them and took some meat or something of the birds.

The chicks on the other hand were just gone! I'm thinking it may have been something different than a hawk as well, but we've never had any other predator problems except with hawks, thus I'm not ruling them out...

 

[spolicas]

Concern I have is that if everyone with a small flock where to start taking action against raptors, the hawks in many areas would have nowhere to even land. For me, at some time I have to put a value on the raptor since they are public domain. My flock is considerably larger and probably more valuable, at least to me. Despite that, I have reservations about killing or harassing raptors especially if they are not even on my property. Those raptors are worth more to the interested public than is my flock. If flock is to be protected, then take measures that operate only on your property and minimize risk to tax payers raptor. Many options exist to control losses of your birds and many will be flat out more effective than your present approach which is effective in short-term only and will appear to be little more than a pissing contest with neighbor.

In my line of work, a different group of birds (cormorants, herons, kingfishers, ospreys and bald eagles) that target fish can consume a good number of fishes in a single day yet repellents as you are contemplating are only effective when they are set off while predator is present. Such methods are ineffective when they are not operational and hawk will not schedule it's hunting forays for when you are home after work and on weekends. Birds also acclimate to propane cannons. Big fish producers that can loose $10,000's in a single 24-h period do find such efforts worthwhile as flocks move through but with small numbers it is simply not worth effort.

Like I said earlier, I would not kill the raptor. Obtaining a kill permit would be a diplomatic deterrent for the lady who is feeding them. I do believe this lady is messing the food chain up by feeding these hawks, not only attracting more to the area than is normal... but also showing them not to be afraid of humans. Just a few days ago I walked out into my horse pasture and a large Osprey was looking at my cats... the first and only time I had ever seen it is when I confronted the lady for calling it and trying to feed it. So when I approached it to scare it off, it simply fluttered to the other side, pitting the cats between itself and I. I finally got it to go away by picking up a shovel and approaching it (it was not scared of me, but only the foreign object - which I was not going to use to harm it, simply to scare it off).

I understand about the effectiveness of repellents. I was planning to use them only when the boarder was calling them to come eat, and only then if I saw one in a tree ready to approach her for the food she offered. I was not going to just randomly set off fireworks... c'mon now.

I am going to keep all my options on the table, if for nothing else but diplomatic purposes (including: a permit to kill, fireworks, air cannons, getting a rooster, and the myriad of other ideas given to me on this forum).

Thank you all for your concern and help! I look forward to any more replies.

 

[centrarchid]

Like I said earlier, I would not kill the raptor. Obtaining a kill permit would be a diplomatic deterrent for the lady who is feeding them. I do believe this lady is messing the food chain up by feeding these hawks, not only attracting more to the area than is normal... but also showing them not to be afraid of humans. Just a few days ago I walked out into my horse pasture and a large Osprey was looking at my cats... the first and only time I had ever seen it is when I confronted the lady for calling it and trying to feed it. So when I approached it to scare it off, it simply fluttered to the other side, pitting the cats between itself and I. I finally got it to go away by picking up a shovel and approaching it (it was not scared of me, but only the foreign object - which I was not going to use to harm it, simply to scare it off).

I understand about the effectiveness of repellents. I was planning to use them only when the boarder was calling them to come eat, and only then if I saw one in a tree ready to approach her for the food she offered. I was not going to just randomly set off fireworks... c'mon now.

I am going to keep all my options on the table, if for nothing else but diplomatic purposes (including: a permit to kill, fireworks, air cannons, getting a rooster, and the myriad of other ideas given to me on this forum).

Thank you all for your concern and help! I look forward to any more replies.

I increasingly think ignorance is effecting some of you plans. Ospreys will not target cats. Study up on your raptors and predators in general, otherwise you are apt to waste time managing for wrong species.

 

[spolicas]

I increasingly think ignorance is effecting some of you plans. Ospreys will not target cats. Study up on your raptors and predators in general, otherwise you are apt to waste time managing for wrong species.

Well, I'm not sure what it was then... I do know it was a large raptor, the same type the lady was trying to coax out of the tree to feed in her hand.

I also know that the hawks I have seen her feed, they have killed my chickens (I've seen it with my own two eyes.).

 

[centrarchid]

Take a picture of it or find picture of same on internet. Heavy presence of one raptor species could be used to your advantage since if a dominant like red-tailed hawk, more problematic species with regards to chicks like Coopers can be excluded. Some raptor species can be protected against differently than others.



My bet is raptor(s) being fed juvenile red-tailed hawk. They can become extremely habituated to humans. Patches of heavy cover, adult standard sized roosters, or better yet an active dog can keep them from visiting yet hawk will keep others raptors away while it is doing its thing.