Landrace/adaptive breeding discussion

[NatJ]

Another thing to consider, is that some animals have a population mechanism to control population when pressure gets too high. Since most chickens live in extremely cramped (if safe) environments, if they have this kind of mechanism it would likely be triggered in a coop situation.

I hadn't thought of that, but yes that would be another very possible mechanism.

That would be another thing that is stronger in some chickens than others, because of how common it is for a given flock to include some hens that go broody regularly and other hens that never go broody even when they all live in the same conditions.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I suspect there is a fat level component as well, as part of a series or a collection of interrelated conditions that trigger broodiness in one bird but not another.

 

[fluffycrow]

@NatJ Very good points brought up. Like U_Stormcrow, my birds aren't what I'd call "fat".

This is the typical build for my birds, although I've noticed that in the newer generations, they seem to be getting a bit more "plump". Don't know what that says about their ability to store fat, but it doesn't seem to be good

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@NatJ Very good points brought up. Like U_Stormcrow, my birds aren't what I'd call "fat". View attachment 3840096This is the typical build for my birds, although I've noticed that in the newer generations, they seem to be getting a bit more "plump". Don't know what that says about their ability to store fat, but it doesn't seem to be good

I wish I could judge that way. I have to open mine up and look around inside to get a good idea of their fat levels.

 

[fluffycrow]

I wish I could judge that way. I have to open mine up and look around inside to get a good idea of their fat levels.

That's why I said I couldn't judge their fat storing ability, only that they don't look "fat". But, if there's actually a correlation between fat storage and broodiness, then mine are definitely not good at storing fat. But that's only a guess. My butchering is done by someone else, so I may never know

 

[Perris]

the breeds that are traditionally considered non-broody (Mediterranean breeds) are also ones that are typically lean rather than having a lot of fat

Fwiw, most of mine are Mediterranean type. They are fleet of foot, fly some, and lean. Some of them are also broody. The relatively young broodies amongst them are also the most skittish (one was described by someone else as 'mad as a box of frogs', which I think conjures up the right image ), while the youngest (3 of this year's pullets ) are not at all skittish and very lean. I don't see a pattern here.

 

[Perris]

If there is a genetic component to how many eggs the hen lays before she goes broody, then selecting for a larger clutch of eggs would make her go broody less often. Past a certain point, a hen would never go broody, because she would not lay "enough" eggs before fall comes and she molts and starts over.

There is. I cannot remember where now, but somewhere I read that the modern production breed was essentially created when the switch that tells the hen to stop laying and start incubating got turned off, so they don't get a 'clutch complete' message and just keep laying.

 

[LaurenRitz]

There is. I cannot remember where now, but somewhere I read that the modern production breed was essentially created when the switch that tells the hen to stop laying and start incubating got turned off, so they don't get a 'clutch complete' message and just keep laying.

But again, it seems to be a graduated scale rather than an absolute, because some will go broody on four fake eggs while others amass 20 or more before they stop laying. This suggests that even in this tiny piece of the brooding process multiple genes and multiple triggers are involved.

 

[Perris]

But again, it seems to be a graduated scale rather than an absolute, because some will go broody on four fake eggs while others amass 20 or more before they stop laying. This suggests that even in this tiny piece of the brooding process multiple genes and multiple triggers are involved.

Indeed. The production breeds came from the highly selected strains that just kept laying, the switch had been killed. But since it was a genetic error (from an evolutionary point of view) naturally enough the same sort of mistake can happen in reverse, and turn it back on, even in the most highly inbred strains.

 

[fluffycrow]

There is. I cannot remember where now, but somewhere I read that the modern production breed was essentially created when the switch that tells the hen to stop laying and start incubating got turned off, so they don't get a 'clutch complete' message and just keep laying.

So we can assume that it's rather easy to bring back the "switch" by crossing to a broody line, especially since it's an evolutionarily "faulty" gene

Maybe I should think about crossing Cruella to one of the Tsouloufati boys...