Landrace/adaptive breeding discussion

[Mother of Chaos]

that's a good point.

It, and BLC's point quoted below, prompts another: that 'insta-flocks' (you have a talent for neologisms @Mother of Chaos ) are composed of unrelated members, whereas all my birds think they are related (even if actually they are not), because all but the eldest hens were hatched and raised within the flock.

I'm sure that's a key feature with regard to multiple roos getting on especially; perhaps because they all share genes, so some of their genes will be passed on whoever sires whom, and perhaps because as a large social group they are promiscuous (males mate with multiple females, females mate with multiple males). The latter also selects against hurting any chick, because in such a situation that might lead to adults killing their own offspring.

I firmly believe that the more closely we can get to providing the general conditions in which chickens evolved (feed, habitat, flock size and make-up, etc.), the healthier a flock will be. Allowing a flock to move toward this original lifestyle should be a prime goal for all chicken-keepers.

And no, I'm not talking about playing dress-up and imitating 18th century life. It's understanding the conditions in which a specific animal thrives and doing our best to duplicate them with the options we have today.

Obviously I'm far away from being able to provide a setting like those that you or @No Coop No Problem or others have. But I'm getting them out of their run into varied mini-habitats in the backyard as much as I can, providing a run that imitates a forest floor, and so forth.

- I've given up trying to believe that I know what's coming in the future, haha sort of, but it seems very unlikely that I'll suddenly find myself with 10 acres of undeveloped land. But I know what I'd do with chickens if that were to happen, thanks to posters here.

 

[Wild Iris]

...It is an asset here, where they are free dawn to dusk, and they grow up within the flock. They naturally work as a team. They occasionally have a scuffle. Very rarely blood is drawn. The hierarchy is stable except when there are teenagers about, and most of them learn their place, or learn to bide their time, quickly. The dominant roo is not the most popular one with the hens and is not the most prolific in terms of offspring; no. 2 wins on both those counts. Hens mate with all of them.

That's very interesting, especially about no.2 and his place in the flock.

I think what is less common with your flock (and others) than those of us newer posters is that your flock is multigenerational, both roos and hens...

You have expressed this so well. I had a hazy idea of this and was trying to explain it to my husband: why it matters how mature, as a whole, the flock is--rather than just each chicken individually.

... 'insta-flocks' are composed of unrelated members, whereas all my birds think they are related (even if actually they are not), because all but the eldest hens were hatched and raised within the flock.

I'm sure that's a key feature with regard to multiple roos getting on especially; perhaps because they all share genes, so some of their genes will be passed on whoever sires whom, and perhaps because as a large social group they are promiscuous (males mate with multiple females, females mate with multiple males). The latter also selects against hurting any chick, because in such a situation that might lead to adults killing their own offspring.

This brings up another question I keep running into: how do you manage to have a related flock without it becoming unhealthily inbred?

 

[Wild Iris]

I firmly believe that the more closely we can get to providing the general conditions in which chickens evolved (feed, habitat, flock size and make-up, etc.), the healthier a flock will be. Allowing a flock to move toward this original lifestyle should be a prime goal for all chicken-keepers.

And no, I'm not talking about playing dress-up and imitating 18th century life. It's understanding the conditions in which a specific animal thrives and doing our best to duplicate them with the options we have today.

My husband is rehabilitating our land (removing invasive plants, re-introducing fire, etc.) and I was walking today through an area that is looking particularly good. Chock full of bee balm, native mint, wildflowers, huckleberries, etc. I was thinking what a good habitat this would be for the chickens, with so much thick, brushy growth for hiding and wide variety of plants/bugs for eating. The quail have returned since we have provided better habitat for them. It's interesting how the plants and animals in a healthy habitat really complement each other.

 

[Perris]

how do you manage to have a related flock without it becoming unhealthily inbred?

Periodically I buy in hatching eggs for a broody. Because they are raised within the flock, everyone assumes they are related, but actually the newbies aren't.

It's also an opportunity to bring in genes that I think might be a useful addition. So some of this year's are Fayoumis, as they have proven greater resistance to some poultry diseases. But the quality of the source is more important than a specific breed for me; bad keepers and breeders can wreck great genetics.

The quail have returned since we have provided better habitat for them. It's interesting how the plants and animals in a healthy habitat really complement each other.

This is so true. An easy example very apparent at the moment is: a blob of chicken poop on the lawn attracts bluebottles, and the chicks spend hours chasing the bluebottles and eating the ones they catch. Win:win!

 

[Mother of Chaos]

Periodically I buy in hatching eggs for a broody. Because they are raised within the flock, everyone assumes they are related, but actually the newbies aren't.

It's also an opportunity to bring in genes that I think might be a useful addition. So some of this year's are Fayoumis, as they have proven greater resistance to some poultry diseases. But the quality of the source is more important than a specific breed for me; bad keepers and breeders can wreck great genetics.

This is so true. An easy example very apparent at the moment is: a blob of chicken poop on the lawn attracts bluebottles, and the chicks spend hours chasing the bluebottles and eating the ones they catch. Win:win!

Dang, I wish mine would chase and eat flies. They don’t even glance at them.

 

[Perris]

Dang, I wish mine would chase and eat flies. They don’t even glance at them.

they may be as picky about flies as about grasses - there are lots of different species of fly!

 

[Wild Iris]

Dang, I wish mine would chase and eat flies. They don’t even glance at them.

Me too! I had read that chickens would eat flies, but so far they've shown no interest.

 

[Wild Iris]

Periodically I buy in hatching eggs for a broody. Because they are raised within the flock, everyone assumes they are related, but actually the newbies aren't.

That's kind of brilliant. How do you manage the logistics of that? I mean, can you predict when a certain hen will be broody so that you can order the eggs for that week? I hear that you shouldn't add an egg to the clutch after she begins sitting on them, so it seems like a very time-sensitive undertaking.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

they may be as picky about flies as about grasses - there are lots of different species of fly!

Bluebottles always remind me of a British mystery where someone has gone missing, and then a neighbor hears the buzz of bluebottles.

 

[Perris]

That's kind of brilliant. How do you manage the logistics of that? I mean, can you predict when a certain hen will be broody so that you can order the eggs for that week? I hear that you shouldn't add an egg to the clutch after she begins sitting on them, so it seems like a very time-sensitive undertaking.

I did my research to decide what breeds would/might suit here, then surfed sites where hatching eggs are advertised, and kept notes of potential suppliers. Then when I had/have a broody I look/ed them up; sometimes they had/have the right eggs at the time, and then I go get those. I don't trust them to the post; I only consider suppliers in driving distance. I have gone as far as 5 hours each way for the right eggs from the right supplier. So it is time-sensitive insofar as it depends on a coincidence of a bird going broody when the preferred eggs are available.