Landrace/adaptive breeding discussion

[LaurenRitz]

So, a question. I bring it here because I don't know who else to ask.

My primary roo is 2 years old. His sons are a year old. This afternoon I witnessed my first real cock fight, him and the largest of his boys. I had the older roo in isolation with 2 hens for the last week, and the wind blew the door open so they all got out.

The younger is full of himself. His Dad would chase him off, the boy would circle around and attack again. It was never the older roo being the aggressor, at least not in that sense.

Another young roo kept jumping into the fray to take potshots at the senior roo, and then running away. I've known he needed to go for other problems for a while, I just haven't done it yet.

Neither has ever shown any human aggression, which is why they're still around.

Both have comb and wattle injuries, both are limping but upright and mobile. I have them separated for the moment (not planned, the senior roo took refuge in the coop and I closed the door).

I'm just not sure what to do. Let them work it out, even if they kill each other?

My inclination is to harvest the younger, since he was being the aggressive one, pretending submission only to sneak around and attack again. I need to harvest 2 hens and that other obnoxious roo anyway.

Lots of reasons pro and con, I'm just not sure what to do. Ideas or suggestions?

 

[kattabelly]

Lots of reasons pro and con, I'm just not sure what to do. Ideas or suggestions?

Has the younger cock been in with hens or pullets, and if so how did he act with them? If they've all been together at some point before the recent separation, were any hens showing a preference for one or the other?

Would it help you think through it if you described both birds more, listing any traits or behaviours you like or dislike?

I can't remember all the details of how you're currently keeping them, sorry. How much space do they have access to? (Thinking about how likely it is that they'll just stay out of each other's way rather than continuing to fight)

 

[Molpet]

I had a cockerel that started fighting with senior roosters
Several roosters ended up with broken feet that never healed right.

 

[LaurenRitz]

They have full access to about 3 acres and use maybe a quarter of it. The flock is fully free range and they rafter roost outside. I normally don't isolate anyone unless they're sick, but two hens were so obese they have trouble walking so I lured them into the isolation pen and the senior roo went in with them.

Another roo has taken the position of beta. The two younger roos spend a lot of time chasing each other away from the hens but will cooperate to keep the younger roos away. This one seems to want all the privileges of beta with none of the responsibilities. The other responds to escort calls and such, and the hens like him.

The one that was fighting is ok with the hens, but they don't really seem to prefer him. During the week that the senior roo was absent they seemed to be angling toward the "other" beta.

They all prefer the senior. My concern is that he's the father to most of the hens. I don't like the early bottleneck when I'm trying to create a landrace group.

The plan for next year was to get rid of the senior and both of his sons, letting a new bloodline take the top spot. But if I did that now it would leave the flock without an experienced flock leader and I generally let the hens make the decision of who to keep.

Since they haven't really expressed a preference, I put off the decision.

The senior and his son are both the conformation I want, wide, heavy chested, meaty, strong legs and wings.

 

[Molpet]

The senior and his son are both the conformation I want, wide, heavy chested, meaty, strong legs and wings.

Sometimes taking the 3rd boy leaving the 2 helps with the fighting. You could try that and see

 

[kattabelly]

If you're planning to replace them all next year anyway I'd be thinking about who would be a good example for the replacement(s) to learn from, unless you plan on bringing in an adult rooster.

If I'm reading your post right I think it sounds like the hens prefer one of the older rooster's sons over the other, but you don't want to keep the one they prefer? And they aren't so keen on the one you were thinking of keeping, who is also the one that's been fighting with the older rooster?

As well as Molpet's suggestion above, if they're currently all rafter roosting in the same building might it be possible to either divide it somehow or set up some kind of basic alternative roost space, in case being more able to keep away from one another would help keep the peace?

It does sound to me like you're leaning towards keeping the older rooster, for now at least. Try a thought experiment: you hear or see something that suggests at least one of the boys has been killed somehow. You go looking for survivors. Which one are you most desperate or happy to find?

 

[LaurenRitz]

Sometimes taking the 3rd boy leaving the 2 helps with the fighting. You could try that and see

Not quite clear. Do you mean the one that was taking advantage of the fight to sneak-attack the senior? I have no problem getting rid of him. There are a total of 5, so "get rid of one" gets tricky.

 

[LaurenRitz]

Roosters:

Primary, 2 years old
His 2 sons, 1 year old (the second hasn't shown up in this saga, he's at the bottom of the rooster hierarchy)
Dorking-Sussex cross (this is the one I would go looking for in k's thought experiment, and is the one I'm hoping the hens will choose)
Two Kraienkoppe, one of whom is a jerk and the other shows no interest in the hens.

So I guess 6, not 5.

 

[LaurenRitz]

If you're planning to replace them all next year anyway I'd be thinking about who would be a good example for the replacement(s) to learn from, unless you plan on bringing in an adult rooster.

That's actually a good point. I'm hoping that the girls will choose the Dorking-Sussex. So far they haven't shown a clear preference, possibly because I've selected for good rooster behavior.

 

[Molpet]

Not quite clear. Do you mean the one that was taking advantage of the fight to sneak-attack the senior? I have no problem getting rid of him. There are a total of 5, so "get rid of one" gets tricky.

Oh I thought you had 3 males . I would start with the one you have no problem getting rid of. See if that changes flock dynamics.
If not pick the next.
How many hens?