Langshan Thread!!!

[JensChickies]

I absolutely love my langshan! All I have read is that they can be slower to develop, but can be a very sweet bird. My langshan is a week older than my other two chickens but she was one of the last ones to feather in. So I can really see the difference between the breeds.

 

[JensChickies]

Yes she is a hatchery bird. That's is very interesting information. Thank you!

 

[Dirt Farmer]

The chicks I hatched last Spring started to lay at 8 months. They layed all winter when the other breeds from the same setting quit. After a while they were laying large and extra large eggs.

 

[BGMatt]

Mine start anywhere from 28 weeks to 40 weeks depending on age and when they were hatched. This is an area of improvement I think we as breeders need to be mindful of. Historically the Langshan was NOT supposed to be a slow developing bird. In the late 1890's it was expected that a late fall hatch would be laying by the start of spring so no later than 6 months. However the weights were the same or actually 1/2 higher than what we have now.

 

[JensChickies]

Mine start anywhere from 28 weeks to 40 weeks depending on age and when they were hatched. This is an area of improvement I think we as breeders need to be mindful of.  Historically the Langshan was NOT supposed to be a slow developing bird.  In the late 1890's it was expected that a late fall hatch would be laying by the start of spring so no later than 6 months. However the weights were the same or actually 1/2 higher than what we have now. 

Wow! 40 weeks?! That's a long time. Why does this breed take so long? For me, it doesn't bother me, but I could see how that would be bothersome to people.

 

[BGMatt]

For some reason quote doesn't work for me right now. Anyway, I only had a few take that long and they were late hatches without supplemental lighting over winter.

I think too many breeders have forgotten to focus on the production aspects of the bird and are under the false impression that overall size is linked to slow growth. If you're just raising for show it doesn't matter how slow it grows. While I do show my birds and indeed that's the main reason I have poultry, I believe if they don't perform as they should then they aren't good examples of the breed, it's lazy breeding.

Some of it is also likely due to the other two breeds in the class, the Brahma and Cochin being so slow developing, which is fine, those birds weren't meant to be dual purpose farm fowl, they were roasters, meat replacements for the turkey and are heavier birds than the Langshan.

I'm not saying they should be super quick to be fully mature, leave that to the hatchery mutts, but the pullets should be laying between 20-24 weeks, and the cockerels should be a decent meal around the 24 week mark. Langshans were a dual purpose farm fowl, think Rhode Island Red or Plymouth Rock, and should be similar (or superior) in growth and production.

I'll get off my soapbox, but really something I strongly believe, not just breeding birds to the Standard (because otherwise you just have mutts), but making them earn their keep.

 

[JensChickies]

Very well said.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Matt and I differ on the timetable for laying.

I want my females to lay no earlier than 8 months. My reason? If a pullet is good enough for me to keep as a breeder, I'm going to use her as such. I won't keep a bird that long if I know it's not going to be worth anything. So, by allowing the birds to wait until 8 months before laying eggs, the reproductive tract has a longer time to develop and also allows for a wider pubic bone spread. This means the eggs won't remain as small for nearly as long as a bird that lays at 6 months. So while others are waiting on their eggs to get some size, I can start setting eggs within a week or 2 of a pullet laying. I also won't be "wasting" eggs that could be used for hatching the next generation because they are too small to hatch from.

As for the males, I want the males to get to their maximum size. To me, having a male reaching sexual maturity fast means that they are simply busy breeding instead of building themselves. I prefer a male that starts breeding anywhere from 9 months or more. Course, they don't start looking ready for show until well after their 2nd year. That's more along the lines of feathering though and not the actual frame and mass.

Could someone breed for faster developing and maintain size? Absolutely! But let's just take a look at the production aspect of this. Leghorns (production) are a small breed and are meant to lay eggs earlier in life than other breeds. They can start laying eggs as early as 4.5 months in some strains. BUT, the size of the bird is small and they do not produce for a long amount of time.

Meat birds grow fast as well, usually in about 6 weeks. They are useless as breeders due to their bodies simply not being able to keep up their rate of growth for long.

I'm just saying that body size and production are inversely correlated. In order to get the size without ruining the integrity of the frame, you need to allow a bit of time for the body to shape up. Pushing it to fast, especially expecting a bird of that size to begin laying eggs at 6 months will (without good and intensive breeding practices) will result in a smaller bird.

It can be done, but be sure to not sacrifice the size for the early production.

 

[JensChickies]

Matt and I differ on the timetable for laying.


I want my females to lay no earlier than 8 months.  My reason? If a pullet is good enough for me to keep as a breeder, I'm going to use her as such. I won't keep a bird that long if I know it's not going to be worth anything. So, by allowing the birds to wait until 8 months before laying eggs, the reproductive tract has a longer time to develop and also allows for a wider pubic bone spread.  This means the eggs won't remain as small for nearly as long as a bird that lays at 6 months.  So while others are waiting on their eggs to get some size, I can start setting eggs within a week or 2 of a pullet laying. I also won't be "wasting" eggs that could be used for hatching the next generation because they are too small to hatch from.


As for the males, I want the males to get to their maximum size.  To me, having a male reaching sexual maturity fast means that they are simply busy breeding instead of building themselves. I prefer a male that starts breeding anywhere from 9 months or more. Course, they don't start looking ready for show until well after their 2nd year. That's more along the lines of feathering though and not the actual frame and mass. 


Could someone breed for faster developing and maintain size? Absolutely! But let's just take a look at the production aspect of this.  Leghorns (production) are a small breed and are meant to lay eggs earlier in life than other breeds.  They can start laying eggs as early as 4.5 months in some strains. BUT, the size of the bird is small and they do not produce for a long amount of time. 


Meat birds grow fast as well, usually in about 6 weeks. They are useless as breeders due to their bodies simply not being able to keep up their rate of growth for long.  


I'm just saying that body size and production are inversely correlated. In order to get the size without ruining the integrity of the frame, you need to allow a bit of time for the body to shape up.  Pushing it to fast, especially expecting a bird of that size to begin laying eggs at 6 months will (without good and intensive breeding practices) will result in a smaller bird.


It can be done, but be sure to not sacrifice the size for the early production.  

That's a good way of looking at it. I had never thought of it like that. Thank you.

 

[lillieegg]

This is little Happy Feet