Large irregular air sac?????? Help!!!!!!! Would like peoples thoughts on this.

[dandydoodle]

I am sorry, I think it is pretty much out of your hands. There is no way you can deal with shrinking the veins, the chicks need to do that themselves as part of the developing/ hatching with all the moving around. If they are too early/small/weak/underdeveloped to do that, you are pretty much stuck. The one with the smaller air cell at least might still have a chance, the other ones are probably not going to be developed enough internally to make it.

The one that I thought had a pretty good air sac is also super weak. I think he got shaken up in the mail too. Oh well, I will just cross my fingers and wait and see if they decide to get stronger or if they decide to pass. The third one I will see if I can expose its beak so it can breath better. Other then that it is all up to them. Unfortunately with the air cell so bad and all I wonder what affect it had on them developing. Trying to keep my hopes up because, I really want them and don't want them to die. I have to admit though I am not that optimistic. I have done probably 10 to 15 hatches in my day and this one is just not looking good. They have been in the bator long enough that if they were strong and healthy they would either be out on their own or least working on a good zip. My temps have been good the whole time 99 to 100 and they humidity has been at a good level and quite stable. Anyway your right I think it is out of my hands.

 

[dandydoodle]

Uggh, it shows the different positions but not how to help.

 

[Kelsie2290]

"Uggh, it shows the different positions but not how to help. "

They should give you an idea of where the head/beak is? Think the problem with most of the malpositions is there is really nothing you can do since you can't get the head/beak to where it can get air..

Unfortunately it seems you are reaching the point of doing something even if it is wrong. If they were mine I would pip the shell/membrane for them where ever it looks like the beak/head should be, especially if they have tried to zip internally. Prop the egg so that part is uppermost. Leave the membranes with veins alone as best you can, if they manage to slow down the veins enough then try to help them out, very slowly. You may very well kill them, but it doesn't sound like they will be able to hatch on their own, and leaving them be means they will just die anyhow.

With the way oversize air cells the chicks just don't have room to develop as they need to, and they can't move around enough to get rid of the veins and in position, and the hatch time frame goes wrong, and they have no energy reserves to fight with, they just have a lot of strikes against them. Shipped eggs seem to start with a couple of strikes against them anyhow.

Have you checked your incubator temps independently? I still think there is something going on there with the temp.

 

[bugglesmommy]

I have lost most head between legs chicks, bur I did save 1. He was shipped and had a bigger air cell. I don't know if this is advisable, but I will tell you what happened with him.

I was worried about that one from the start. The air cell was too big, and when he fell behind in pipping like always I started with a small air hole and later in the day made it larger and moistened the membrane. That night, really late there was nothing happening . I saw no signs of life. I used a cue tip to try and get any sort of response and nadda. I believed he was dead. I slowly started to Peel of the shell, just the shell to figure out what happened. I got 2/3 of the shell off with no response to what I was doing when I pulled a bit of shell and a drop of blood formed. !!!!!!!!! DEAD THINGS DON'T BLEED!!! I stopped the minor bleeding and then it moved. I covered the whole egg in ointment and put it in a very small Tupperware container with a wet paper Rowland. I was SURE I doomed it. I was certain he wouldn't be alive by morning yet he was. I think pulling the shell off got some air to him. He got stronger and by evening he was able to be let out. He grew strong and healthy. That was a miracle. I don't know if that story will help, but never call it quits til after the fat lady sings ... twice.

 

[dandydoodle]

I have lost most head between legs chicks, bur I did save 1. He was shipped and had a bigger air cell. I don't know if this is advisable, but I will tell you what happened with him.

I was worried about that one from the start. The air cell was too big, and when he fell behind in pipping like always I started with a small air hole and later in the day made it larger and moistened the membrane. That night, really late there was nothing happening . I saw no signs of life. I used a cue tip to try and get any sort of response and nadda. I believed he was dead. I slowly started to Peel of the shell, just the shell to figure out what happened. I got 2/3 of the shell off with no response to what I was doing when I pulled a bit of shell and a drop of blood formed. !!!!!!!!! DEAD THINGS DON'T BLEED!!! I stopped the minor bleeding and then it moved. I covered the whole egg in ointment and put it in a very small Tupperware container with a wet paper Rowland. I was SURE I doomed it. I was certain he wouldn't be alive by morning yet he was. I think pulling the shell off got some air to him. He got stronger and by evening he was able to be let out. He grew strong and healthy. That was a miracle. I don't know if that story will help, but never call it quits til after the fat lady sings ... twice.

Thanks for your story. I think they are getting stronger. I am not gonna rush them though cause, I know it has been hard on them. I look at it this way if I managed to save even one it is a positive thing because, if I hadn't intervened they would have all died. Still crossing fingers and trying to be patient.

 

[dandydoodle]

OH MY GOSH WE HAVE TWO BABIES UP AND RUNNING AROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE OTHER ONE IS STILL ALIVE BUT, STILL IN THE SHELL. I THINK I MIGHT HAVE SAVED THEM!!!!!!!!!! WOOOO FLIPPING HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I THOUGHT IT WAS HOPELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bugglesmommy]

YAY!!!!!!!!! That's AWESOME!!

 

[Kelsie2290]

Good grief. I think you have preformed a miracle. Now here's hoping that you have a nice boy.

 

[dandydoodle]

Thanks guys!!!!!!!!! I wish ya'll could've seen how bad these air cells were and just how life less everyone looked through the process. I was really thinking there was no hope but, YAY!!!!!!! I guess if you pay attention to what the situation is by candling during the process and then act quickly when the situation really needs it and then after giving them air be very patient and let them do their thing while keeping them moist in the most hopeless cases can surprise you.

I know if I hadn't done something when I did I would have three dead chicks now. Well we are just waiting on chicky number three. He was in a little worse condition because I had trouble finding his beak. So he went a little longer with out opening the inner membrane. Also I did a opening on the other end because, I thought his head was down there. I ended up finding the beak he just had it really tucked in and I found it after I had already made an opening in the bottom. So I am nervous of him coming out to soon because, I don't know if what I did slowed down the absorbing of the yolk sac. I have the bottom wrapped in a damp wet napkin and tried to shape it like it was an egg. He is starting to try to get out now, I am nervous to see whether the yolk sac has gone in or not. Here is hoping for one more baby miracle.

I know I did my best but I am still kicking myself for the mistake I made on the third one.

 

[dandydoodle]

Uggh, the last one popped out of his egg. I was hoping he would stay in there at least until tomorrow. Exactly what I was afraid of, his yolk sac was not all the way absorbed. I think if he had waited until the morning he probably would have been good to go. Its not super huge but, its is definitely hanging out. I am not sure what there chances are or what I can do for him.