Late death in eggs

[Dirt Road]

You want 12% to 13% loss in order to hatch. I weigh at 6, 12, and 18 days. Obviously day 18 is too late to make corrections, so is more to satisfy my curiosity and plan future actions. That way you should have 1/3 of the weight loss accomplished on day 6, etc. I also weigh each egg as they go in, then weigh a half dozen together on day 6. Weigh the same half dozen on day 12, and candle for the fist time. You may have to re-calculate on day 18 if you wind up with quitters in the half dozen on day 12.

Jim

 

[Ryu]

It get a few 'Stoppers' with my stock. Mine are three types.

1) Too big for shell. These little guys are packed in there, no air cell, noway to turn--usually their beak is under their wing. They look fine at 18 days when they go into the hatcher, but they grow way too much in the last three days. We saved one, and it is Ginormous, easily twice as big as everyone else his age.

2) Broke into aircell but didn't pip. These were a real concern, my feeling upon egg-topsy is that they drowned. We dropped the humidity, and we haven't had one of these in awhile.

3) Didn't break into aircell. My feeling is that these little guys are just too weak to pip and zip. I am going to switch breeder feed and am looking at a supplement for breeding season.

We have hatched in the still air Hovabator, and a Brinsea Ova-Easy. I've been charting the humidity, ect. and haven't found a magic set of conditions yet--other than don't try to breed Standard Cornish in February!

 

[Star Valley]

Just started incubating this summer and had a similar experience. I had some Black Star hens running with a RIR rooster. I put 18 eggs in the incubator due June 9th.
Results:
12 live births
4 who broke thru the shell with their beak and died
1 fully developed but didnt break the shell
1 unfertilized

I have a Little Giant circulating air incubator and watched the temp which stayed steady. Dont have anything to test the humidity, but kept the water troughs at the bottom of bator full all the time.

Other interesting statistics:
Day 20 - 1 live birth
Day 21 - 3 live births
Day 22 - 6 live births, 2 poke their beak thru the shell and die
Day 23 - 2 live births, 2 poke their beak thru the shell and die
Day 24 - Cleaned up the mess and found the fully developed unbroken egg and the unfertilized.

I have 36 more in the incubator now and I'm on day 19.
Is a 66% live birth pretty normal?
I've always heard dont help them, but dont know exactly why?
Would any of the five survived who broke the shell if I helped when I realized they were in trouble?


Thanks in advance for your advice
Mark

 

[DANNY]

I would use the forced air for the incubator and the still air for the hatcher.

 

[DANNY]

Quote:
I would increase my temperature a little. They should not be hatching and pipping on the 22nd and 23rd days.

 

[walkswithdog]

Danny's right, you want most of your pips and hatches on 20/21, not after. Your bator is running a bit cool. Mine can tend a bit warm and mine hatch 19/20 and rarely after.

I'd also worry that that kind of spread out means you have cool spots in your incubator, but nudge the temp first.

 

[Star Valley]

Thank you both DANNY and walkswithdog for the input.

I just went and nudged it up a bit. We'll see what happens!

Thanks
Mark

 

[waibel zoo]

So all the eggs I hatch are not my own. I order them. But I found this very interesting article on hatching eggs and high altitudesude on a poulry site
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/1123/hatching-at-high-altitudes


"By Pas Reform. The effects of hatching at high altitude on hatchability and chick quality depend largely on the altitude at which the hatching eggs are produced - and how the hatchery manager adjusts the incubation programme.



Barometric pressure declines with altitude, as does the partial pressure of oxygen and absolute humidity. Fresh ventilating air will tend to be colder and drier than at sea level.

Oxygen Availability
The oxygen content of air is always 21 per cent but reduced partial pressure at altitude provides less oxygen from a given volume of air. This pressure reduction results in lower levels of oxygen for the embryo, which is partially compensated by the embryo's higher capacity for binding oxygen to blood haemoglobin (Dragon et al., 1999).

At altitudes above 2000 metres, it can help to inject oxygen into the setter and the hatcher, to raise the oxygen level from 21 to 23-25 per cent. The main drawbacks of using oxygen are cost and safety. Its use may, therefore, be limited to hatching parent stock.

Water Loss
It is reasonable to assume that the drier air at altitude will result in increased moisture loss from the eggs. However, it is important to realize that breeder flocks adapt to altitude by producing eggs with a lower effective pore area. This offsets increased diffusion and therefore water vapour loss through the egg shell at any altitude remains the same as at sea level (Rahn et al., 1977).

Conclusions
The following three scenarios are considered:

1) Eggs produced at sea level: hatchery at altitude (1000-2000 metres)
Of the three scenarios, this is the least desirable because it will definitely result in reduced hatchability. Eggs produced at sea level have a relatively large effective pore area and will therefore lose more water at higher altitudes. To compensate, setters and hatchers should be operated at a higher relative humidity. This is best achieved by pre-conditioning the inlet air to a relative humidity of 75 per cent, with a temperature of 24-28ºC (optimum). At the same time, increase the ventilation rate from normal for sea level, to accomodate the reduced oxygen levels.

2) Eggs produced at same altitude as hatchery (1000-2000 metres)
In general, this will give good results. Ventilation rates should be higher than normal for sea level. During humid external conditions, increase ventilation even more, as humidity reduces oxygen levels in the air still further. This higher ventilation rate may cause reduced humidity in the setters and hatchers. To avoid constant humidifying, humidity set points should be lowered and the resulting more than optimal weight loss, e.g. 14-15 per cent, is preferred in this case.

3) Eggs produced at altitude; hatchery at sea level
Generally, this will give good results. The set points for relative humidity need to be reduced to achieve optimum weight loss as the eggs have a reduced effective pore area.

Advice
Exact set points for relative humidity are dependent several factors including altitude and egg shell conductivity (age of the flock, nutrition, genetics). It is therefore recommended that relative humidity set points are fine-tuned by weighing trays of eggs before setting and again at transfer at 18 or 18.5 days. "


So I don't think it is all me. I know they say not to help, but I have. If they are pipped internally for more the 24 hours, I pip them. If they have pipped the shell but made no progress in 24 hours I help them. I wrap themin wet paper towels when they are stuck. Not all have needed help. But the ones I have helped have survived. I am tired of losing whole batches when I am trying to do everything right.

 

[Star Valley]

I've got a silly beginner clarification question.

Pipped means they've broken through the shell. Correct?

What is internally pipped? How do you know they are pipped internally?

Mark

 

[DANNY]

Pipping is the first crack in the outer shell. Internal pipping is when they first break thru the membrane and this can be seen when you candle.