Lavender and chocolate splits genetics question

[SourRoses]

Is there a way to breed lavender over buff to get a champagne or would they always default to Isabella? I mean if the lavender dilute gene can be put over a bird with a completely buff or red base and no black?

I'm not a genetics expert, but I believe that Isabel is made on different bases in different breeds. In some it's Wheaten, but in others it's Buff (if memory serves). So I think the end result of adding Lavender is similar.
I've read also that Buff is variable and can be hard to stabilize, especially in the presence of other genes.
But I wonder if an Isabel with some kind of red enhancement like Mahogany or something could take on more of a gold tint? I don't know if those genes are affected by Lavender or would make a leaky mess.

 

[Feathergardens]

Okay, so I ran into a question that stumped me. I wanted to breed some splits for my chocolates and my lavender orpington flocks, and thought I'd be clever and instead of putting a black orpington in with them, I'd just mix the lavender and chocolates. It made sense in my mind. Both genes are recessive and both work on a black base, so I figured a chocolate rooster over a lavender hen should give me a few chocolate pullets split for lavender and a few black roosters split for lavender. So I get two splits in the same pen. But then I became stumped. What happens if you breed two splits that carry both the lavender and the chocolate gene? For example, if I breed a chocolate roo to a lavender hen, he should give me chocolate pullets split for lavender and black cockerals split for chocolate and lavender. If I breed those splits together, some of them should get a lavender and chocolate gene, which to my mind means some sort of double dilution similar to mauve? This is confusing me because mauve is blue or a splash mixed with chocolate. These are all dilute genes, so what am I missing?

I am working on this project and it is actually more complicated than that. When you breed those splits you are breeding what you visually see. Chocolate hens and black roosters, but lavender is not sex link so all of these birds are carrying one copy of lavender. So visually you will get some black, Chocolate, and lavenders (the chicks that got lucky enough to get a lavender gene from both parents. This is where the problem comes in... only 25% of the overall offspring do NOT have a lavender gene at all.
Now to add to it, it's more complicated than just that because it also depends on what prior ancestors were used to get the original lavender and chocolate because I believe (not 100%) that Chocolate covers black, but not red. So...I had one rooster that has Isabel type hackle lacing with a dark Chocolate center. My "theory" is that this came from the original Chocolate rooster and is now showing on this rooster because he has 2 copies of both lavender and chocolate. He is separated from the solid chocolates and being test bred now to an Isabel hen to see if he produces dark Chocolate with the dilute red/gold pattern and then later he will be tested with a traditional black and silver partridge pattern hen.

I originally assumed the same thing that there would be some chicks more of a pretty Mauve since the lavender gene actually affects the feather structure, but I still am unsure. I had a couple lavender chicks that did look a bit dingy like someone mentioned, but not sure why since I also have this rooster that would not have the dilute penciling without 2 copies of lavender and his chocolate color was unaffected. Maybe it is an affect of a lavender split to chocolate . The easiest way for me to figure things out is test breeding.

 

[Slothinc]

I have been wondering about this for quite some time (over a year) and have never been able to find a picture of a chocolate/lavender diluted bird. I hope someone will take a picture at some point! I don’t have any chocolate birds, but have thought about getting something just to try to get this combo.