Lavender-Blue and Lavender-Splash -- anyone know what they look like?

[AquaEyes]

I know they are two different genes, and that when breeding for show, combining them is to be discouraged, but I'm wondering if anyone "threw caution to the wind" and tried combining them just to see how they look. I know that in Muscovy ducks there is a "Silver-Lavender" which is genetically homozygous for Blue (in Muscovies, it's called Silver; in chickens, it's called Splash) and Lavender, and a "Light-Lavender" which is genetically heterozygous for Blue and homozygous for Lavender, but haven't seen pics of how these two genes look when expressed in the same bird. So...does anyone know or (even better) have pics?

 

[galanie]

Since a splash is supposed to be black and white (though yes I know often the roosters look kind of "blue" in the hackles and saddle), I'd imagine they'd look the same as a splash from a "pure" blue line alone.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

If is really very difficult to tell the difference between a bird that is splash without lavender from one with splash AND lavender. The same goes for blue. I have seen this in my own birds that I knew did or did not have two copies of lavender baseed upon breeding records. Also, Kazjaps discusses it on her belgian (breed) site-I will see if I can find the link.

Here: http://www.edelras.nl/belgians/colour.htm

 

[AquaEyes]

Thank you, Harry Shaffer, for PM'ing me and pointing me toward your posts on the United Orpington forum. Below are pics posted by him of birds that are Blue-Lavender (one Blue gene, two Lavender genes). I think they're beautiful.

Australian Araucana



Harry's Birds

 

[galanie]

So are these considered splash? And I notice they are all cockerels. Do the hens not show anything distinct? ETA: Here is a blue only (no lavender) splash. What exactly is the difference again?

 

[AquaEyes]

"Splash" in chickens results from them having two copies of the incompletely-dominant Andalusian Blue gene. "Blue" results from having one. The gene dilutes black in both cases, and can dilute gold when there are two copies (I think...don't remember for sure).

"Lavender" (some breeds use the term "Self-Blue" but it's the same gene) is an autosomal recessive gene, meaning the only birds that show the trait must have two copies of the gene. It acts as a diluter of black (and gold, I think...not sure because it doesn't matter to me so I didn't learn it. I like the idea of a flock of black and "shades of gray" birds.).

What happens in Blue birds is that the black is not evenly diluted -- typically there is lacing on feathers (less dilution at edges, more in centers), and males are darker in the neck, back, hackles and tail, with lighter breast). Lavender birds are more evenly diluted. So in these Blue-Lavender birds, you see the basic Blue dilution pattern in the roo (darker neck, back, hackles and tail, with lighter breast) but the each part is diluted down a notch further. To me, it looks like a lighter blue roo with a lavender breast. The hens (to my eyes) look like a lavender base with faintly-darker hints of lacing.

I realize that this means they don't fit the SOP's descriptions of either Lavender or Blue, but I don't care. This was just to satisfy my own curiosity, and now it's a little mental note I'm filing for when I can have my own flock of utilitarian fowl, all in shades of black and gray (Marans, Jersey Giants and Ameraucanas in chickens, plus guineafowl and Muscovies...and maybe even Slate turkeys!).

ETA -- Are you saying your bird is a Splash, or a Blue? I'm confused.

It does resemble the birds in the pics I posted, but I've never seen a Splash roo keeping the even pattern of dark feathers on top. I have seen pics posted on other threads of very light blues that don't have the Lavender gene that also look a lot like the birds above. Also, are you sure your bird doesn't have Lavender? The tail feathers seem to show some of the "narrow" trait that is associated with Lavender, but that could also be something unrelated. I don't mean anything bad -- I'm just trying to figure it all out. I've seen the B/B/S in the three breeds I mentioned before this edit, and I like the variations. I've also seen the Lavender Ameraucanas (technically project birds), and also liked them. So I was wondering what would happen if I didn't bother separating the Ameraucanas into one B/B/S group, and one Lavender/Black group. I know that in Muscovies, there are birds that are genetically Blue-Lavender or Silver-Lavender (Silver is equivalent genetically to Splash in chickens), but I didn't get to see what they looked like until recently.

I know, with all the beautiful patterns out there, here I am drooling over shades of gray. I never claimed to be normal.

 

[galanie]

I understand all that, and did when I first replied. What I don't see is a visual difference between the roo I posted and the ones you did. Also it's not clear to me whether the ones you posted are supposed to be "splash" but with both blue and Lavender, which you asked for in your initial question, or not.

 

[AquaEyes]

I understand all that, and did when I first replied. What I don't see is a visual difference between the roo I posted and the ones you did. Also it's not clear to me whether the ones you posted are supposed to be "splash" but with both blue and Lavender, which you asked for in your initial question, or not.

Harry said they're Blue-Lavender, not Splash-Lavender. I still haven't seen one of the latter, but these are the first images of the former I've gotten to see. Yes, I agree, not too much of a difference, which is what I was actually hoping. I'm not out to create something new in chickens -- this was merely me wondering if something awful-looking would come out of combining the two genes. True, they'd be "awful" if I was interested in showing or selling hatching eggs or chicks, but I'm not. They'd be utilitarian -- eating bugs and fallen fruit, providing eggs and some meat for personal consumption -- but in (what I consider) an attractive series of subtle patterns in gray and black shades.

 

[AquaEyes]

I looked through some of the pics in your album, and when next to your blue hen, the roo you posted here does look a lot lighter. So he IS genetically Splash? Very interesting. Now I really want to see a Splash-Lavender.

 

[galanie]

Yes, he is splash, the result of two blue genes (I always want to say blue jeans heh). His black feathers don't really show in the pictures, but there's feathers in there with distinct black markings mostly in his tail and wings. He just looks blue in his hackles and saddle. This is the same bird, much younger: