Lavender Orpington project ....

[HallFamilyFarm]

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Its not pure lavender that folks desire. It is "pure" Orpington, Ameraucana, etc. that folks need. Getting the color to breed true is simple. Getting the type is the challenge with any breed.

 

[tgrlily]

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Thought we just went through this. But here we go again!

Lavender birds being sold as "Pure Lavender Orpingtons" are all still in the Project phase. Whether the person you bought them from is calling them Project or not is irrelevant.

If you breed a lavender to a lavender, you get lavender. Not necessarily an Orpington, but a lavender chicken that is no closer to Orpington type than you started with. If you choose to do this, please don't call them Pure Lavender Orpingtons. Also -- you need to grow your chicks out before deciding which to keep.

You need Black Orpingtons for the Orp body type, size & feather quality. It took me over a year to find Black Orps that had the look I wanted. I grew out & sold the first batch I got because I wasn't happy with the type. I grew out & sold MOST of the batch my current Black Orp hens came from because I wasn't happy with the type or size. I only kept four hens out of the second group. Mated with my Lavender Project birds, I'm producing split chicks.

Lav x split = 50% lav, 50% split
Split x split = 25% lav, 50% split, 25% black

Unfortunately, it's getting frustrating. Too many unscrupulous people have gotten involved with this. A local woman put a lavender rooster with her BBS Orps & is selling them for $3 a chick! She's marketing them as blue & black split & lavender splash Orpingtons.

For someone like me who has worked very hard with my flock, it is very upsetting. I'm sure most people who are working this as a Project actually breeding & not just producing chicks become frustrated as well.

Here is the link to the United Orpington Club. It may help you learn about the breed if you want to breed them.

There are some great breeders on here also. Look at Jody's website -- her Orps are stunning!

 

[stonecottagefarm]

That makes sense! Thank you! I've spent the last hour looking at different photos and links and websites and reading the APA Standard of Perfection. In some of the photos, I notice that some of the roosters have super long tail feathers or the hens are really slim. Not at all like orpingtons.

 

[stonecottagefarm]

Quote:
Thought we just went through this. But here we go again!

Lavender birds being sold as "Pure Lavender Orpingtons" are all still in the Project phase. Whether the person you bought them from is calling them Project or not is irrelevant.

If you breed a lavender to a lavender, you get lavender. Not necessarily an Orpington, but a lavender chicken that is no closer to Orpington type than you started with. If you choose to do this, please don't call them Pure Lavender Orpingtons. Also -- you need to grow your chicks out before deciding which to keep.

You need Black Orpingtons for the Orp body type, size & feather quality. It took me over a year to find Black Orps that had the look I wanted. I grew out & sold the first batch I got because I wasn't happy with the type. I grew out & sold MOST of the batch my current Black Orp hens came from because I wasn't happy with the type or size. I only kept four hens out of the second group. Mated with my Lavender Project birds, I'm producing split chicks.

Lav x split = 50% lav, 50% split
Split x split = 25% lav, 50% split, 25% black

Unfortunately, it's getting frustrating. Too many unscrupulous people have gotten involved with this. A local woman put a lavender rooster with her BBS Orps & is selling them for $3 a chick! She's marketing them as blue & black split & lavender splash Orpingtons.

For someone like me who has worked very hard with my flock, it is very upsetting. I'm sure most people who are working this as a Project actually breeding & not just producing chicks become frustrated as well.

Here is the link to the United Orpington Club. It may help you learn about the breed if you want to breed them.

There are some great breeders on here also. Look at Jody's website -- her Orps are stunning!

Just now saw your post. I am wondering where is a good place to get a good quality black orpington rooster so I am going to research that a bit more. Thinkin maybe I will need to let my project chicks grow to size first and then look for either a black rooster or hen that has the qualities most needed. I have looked over Jody's site and I just found some of her links on here showing her progress. It gives me an idea of how much work this is going to be. I am really sad she is not selling anymore chicks or hatching lines. I've noticed some people mentioned Green Fire Farm lines. What do you know about their line?

 

[tgrlily]

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Exactly! Some look like they'd be a better starting point for other breeds.

 

[scbatz33]

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This is my frustration as well. AND I swear, if i see one more "rare blue orp" sale I'm gonna hurl. People are using words like "rare" to make a sale and sucker someone into buying a mislabled product, if you will.

Because there are so many out there who won't do even the slightest bit of reading before the plunge in to things, they are being taken for a ride. I am by no means a genetic expert. Heck, I barely passed college biology! But, I have read and understand the basic concept of the color genetics.

Further, I have read the standard and looked at a bazillion pics of orps to understand what I should be breeding for in order to get my "project" up to SOP. All of this is time consuming and to get these lavenders up to standard is not an over night process. Years have already been put into the project and years more will be required before anyone is able to claim they have true orpingtons that are lavender.


"I am wondering where is a good place to get a good quality black orpington rooster so I am going to research that a bit more. Thinkin maybe I will need to let my project chicks grow to size first and then look for either a black rooster or hen that has the qualities most needed. "

A good place to start would be an APA sanctioned show. Find breeders who also show and WIN with their blacks. Two years ago I bought eggs from a gal who has shown her birds and I bred my best lav roo to them. My resulting splits are showing marked improvement and they are not a year old yet.

Last year I bought eggs from a gal who has SQ type birds and kept the black. I am showing myself this year - to gage how my black will measure up. Should he do as well as I think he will, he will go on my lavs from this year. I kept only a few lavs form last year, to improve color, most i sold off. This year I will keep the best lav girls and the best split boy and do it all over again.

As far as I am concerned, the lavs at this stage of the game should only be looked at as color influence. In order to get the best birds, you have to breed heavily and cull heavily. I have culled more birds this year than I have in the previous 2. It is the ONLY way to make improvements. If a person continues to breed substandard birds, they will continue to get substandard birds.

If a bird has a flaw like too small, too much tail, incorrect comb, bad temperament, crap feathering, not enough fluff, wrong egg color, etc, they must be removed. Those traits are all passed down. Unless you are destitute and have no other recourse, flawed birds must be taken out of the breeding program.

I think a percentage of the people out there are unscrupulous - trying to cash in quick on a fad, a percentage of them don't have the stomach to truly cull out the less than birds an d so they don't set themselves up to be able to improve the line and some just don't have a clue what they are doing because they have made no effort to educate themselves.

Unfortunately, all three of those make it harder and harder for those of us who are serious about improving the lavender lines and breeding quality "type" birds to get traction in the market.

And too, the more serious a person is the less likely they are advertising on a mainstream market. Think of it this way, if you are trying to build a house, your dream house, do you go and sell off all the lumber you bought to build it? No, you'd never get the house built. The really good quality birds/breeders are hard to come by because they keep most of their stock to themselves. They may sell off some overages or culls but for the most part, they are doing it for themselves, to meet their goals, not to make a quick buck.

So, the very very long answer to your question is, if you want really good quality black birds to work on improving the lav lines, you will have to search long and hard and probably pay a good deal of money to acquire them.

 

[HenThymes]

I am like the others this year and making improvements to my lavs using my Exhibition blacks that I do show and win with. This is my rooster that I am using along with crossing two of my black exhibition hens with my lav roo. Truly believe that I will much improvement from the offspring. Have a couple of two week old chicks in the brooder and several more in the incubator.

 

[scbatz33]

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Very lovely.

This is my big guy going to show end of may with.....he'll be 1 year old the week before the show.

This is a pic of what I think about when I think orp.....

 

[HenThymes]

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Very lovely.

This is my big guy going to show end of may with.....he'll be 1 year old the week before the show.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/21675_black_show_roo_002.jpg

This is a pic of what I think about when I think orp.....
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/21675_orpbw.jpg

Keep up posted on how you do at the show!!

Our season is now over till fall, gives me time to grow a few out.

 

[jenni22776rn]

I love this thread... a lavender orpington is kind of my "dream" chicken! I am yet to get one but am still looking! In the mean time I will just watch this thread and

!! There are some pretty birds here!!