Learned something new!

[Wolf-Kim]

I believe dogs have 78 chromosomes, while the fennec fox as I think 64.

Chances for hybridizing? Slim. Even if they produced offspring that reached maturity, the chances of the offspring being fertile. Very, very slim.


Not saying it isn't possible, just highly unprobable. Even if you were to create a breed of "dog" based off of a fennec fox(they specifically said fennec fox), it would be a seperate species than other breeds who were developed from wolves, coyotes, jackals(all of which are closely related).

Dogs 101 is a silly show, most things they state are based off of some sliver of truth. I wouldn't base all your research based off this show, for sure. LOL

-Kim

 

[redhen]

http://www.dogspelledforward.com/evolution-of-the-dog/comment-page-1

 

[redhen]

The more i read though..i do believe that they did evolve from wolves..
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/dogs...og-evolved-so-rapidly-into-a-new-species.html

 

[Wolf-Kim]

Quote:
That is pretty neat, and I've heard about the "domesticated" fox before. Started as a furfarm, but then the fox started changing colors.

Although this proves that a fox can be "easily" domesticated, I'm not sure how it proves that dogs decended from fox instead of wolves. I can understand the "evolutionary" theory and that you can breed a sub breed/species so much so that they can no longer breed back, they then are considered a seperate species.

So in theory, if the dogs descended from a fox, to the point they became a seperate species and cannot successfully breed back to the fox. Then why can they breed with wolves so easily? Or are they claiming that wolves descended from fox as well?

 

[wombat]

Quote:
I've seen quite a bit of that lately, and DNA analyis may end up proving that to be correct.

The older info I'd always seen around was that most "western" breeds came from a domestic dog from the mediteranean area that had probably evolved from jackal-descended domestic dogs that may have originated in Eqypt, and that the "northern" breeds were wolf-decended.

I've seen recent info that indicates that the Egyptians bred domestic dogs to jackals. I've also seen info like the piece you posted that indicates dogs may have been domesticated earlier than previously thought ...

So maybe dogs were originally domesticated wolves, and the jackal influence was bred into some lines later by the Egyptians.

I did find one study that had compared dog and wolf mitochondrial DNA, and had a much higher number of matches than had been expected.

Interesting stuff, and amazing how recent scientific developments are starting to reveal what happened 50k to 100k years ago.

 

[Luna_Chick66]

Quote:
Actually I have a college animal behavior text on foxes and breeding foxes down to get a friendlier smaller dog.

It's been awhile, but I could dig it out and quote it.

 

[wombat]

Quote:
That is pretty neat, and I've heard about the "domesticated" fox before. Started as a furfarm, but then the fox started changing colors.

Although this proves that a fox can be "easily" domesticated, I'm not sure how it proves that dogs decended from fox instead of wolves. I can understand the "evolutionary" theory and that you can breed a sub breed/species so much so that they can no longer breed back, they then are considered a seperate species.

So in theory, if the dogs descended from a fox, to the point they became a seperate species and cannot successfully breed back to the fox. Then why can they breed with wolves so easily? Or are they claiming that wolves descended from fox as well?

They're probably not at all related to the fox, as you pointed out, and both just happen to have big weird looking ears. Fun to speculate. On the other hand, whether fennec foxes are foxes or not is another mystery in and of itself.

 

[Teach97]

the real strange part is why do we even consider wolves and dogs as seperate species...they can breed without any problem and the only barrier to their breeding is human intervention which well aint much considering all those wolf/dog hybrids!!!

But really...coyotes can breed with dogs as well...makes the questin of what is a species even more debatable

 

[redhen]

Quote:
BUT..if a coyote breeds with a domestic dog the F1 babies are sterile..(i believe)

maybe not...?? that couldnt be true..because then we wouldnt have coy-dogs?..

 

[Wolf-Kim]

Quote:
Actually I have a college animal behavior text on foxes and breeding foxes down to get a friendlier smaller dog.

It's been awhile, but I could dig it out and quote it.

I'd appreciate if you did.

Genetics fascinate me.

I'm not doubting that foxes could be domesticated, I'm just saying that a domesticated fox is not a dog.

You could domesticate the fox into a delightful "doglike" pet, but they would only be "doglike" and not a dog. To be a "dog" they have to be able to interbreed with other "dogs" and produce fertile offspring. Which I don't think they could.