Leaving a dog around Chickens alone.

[chickens really]

The thing your dealing with is the dog looks at you as pack leader...Will not touch the chickens when your home or outside. You leave, the dog takes over. Bottom line is your dog can not be trusted with the chickens.
I have three outside farm dogs. A Livestock guardian breed and two Aussie crosses. They never look at the birds if I am outside. They will chase them if I go in or not around...The Maremma never touches or chases but does what he was bred to do...Protect livestock.

Keep them in if your not around....I have to do the same with my two bad dogs.

 

[lgdnevada]

OK - I'm going to jump in here and share some links to published articles I've written on training pups to be around and guard, poultry. They were in Backyard Poultry Magazine and Countryside Magazine earlier this year. But in the OP"s case, they aren't going to help - but - for others, I think it would behoove people to read them.

I'm going to stress with you how vital it is that you cannot expect success from non-LGD breeds and non-LGD breeds that are crossed with LGDs. That is a crap shoot - and a train wreck waiting to happen. LGDs are bred to have less and/or NO prey drive and come from centuries of breeding to guard flocks - not herd them, not chase them, not eat them. You're asking something from the dog he can't give you. German Shepherds are NOT LGDs.

The second thing: YOU are going to be involved in this, hands on, every day, for probably more time than you initially planned on. This is not "Chicken Guards 101 Auto Pilot". Teaching LGDs to remain with and protect fowl is a little trickier than sheep and cattle. Go into this with your eyes open. If you ever do get a real LGD, don't set the dog up to fail by expecting too much, too soon, or entirely the wrong stuff. Tying up a dog only increases frustration and aggression. Don't do it.

But again, you need to cut to the chase here: the German Shepherd is not an LGD, so you are fighting against the tide.

I have numerous clients with my LGDs working all over the country who successfully reared them to protect their poultry. All are either purebred recognized LGD breeds or a cross of known, recognized, purebred LGD breeds - no monkey wrench tossed in with high risk non LGD breeds. All of these people had great success. None of them did it from the kitchen table or the couch. No one used cameras, or hid out of sight. They were there, monitoring. Good old dirty work, hands on, lots of time and patience. Trial and error, praise, correction (and never inhumane - forget the tying the dead chicken around their neck BS), continual guidance. Baby steps.

If you cannot commit to the work it takes to bring up a (real) LGD on fowl - and it is work - then consider using other means to deter predators from your flock other than guardian dogs.

The rescues and shelters are overloaded now with LGDs of every breed and cross because they have unfortunately become a huge fad in America - and people THINK they HAVE to have them. Many people do not need them; even more should never even think of having them because their set up is not right, or they as an owner, just are not made out for the work that is involved and the responsibility.

There are no easy fixes. Again, German Shepherds are not the right breed to be using as an LGD. They are not guardian dogs for livestock.

There are many resources out there in books and on the Internet listing recognized LGD breeds. You will not see German Shepherds listed with any legitimate source. I have a blog, a website, and numerous published papers and articles out there all over the place in tons of ag magazines and newspapers, with free, good, solid advice and training tips. And in at least one article, if not more, I talk about the importance of not using non-LGD breeds to guard livestock. I hope you will avail yourself of them.

Having made a mistake in breed choice, my advice to you is this: swallow your pride, dust yourself off, pick yourself up, and re-purpose that dog as a family companion/guardian/pet. Stop trying to make something out of a dog that cannot and will not be an LGD. Think about making your fencing better and your coops secure. Give the dog a part in your family but don't expect him to guard fowl. Make wonderful lemonade out of this "lemon" situation. Place the dog in your lives so that he can be content, secure, happy and provide you with joy and companionship. Just don't try to make him an LGD.

This is where people get to find out if they have the grit it takes to be farmers - we all screw up, make mistakes…so don't be ashamed. Its how we learn from those mistakes that makes the difference and dictates our success in the end. Learn from this.

http://countrysidenetwork.com/topic...ct-your-poultry-with-livestock-guardian-dogs/

Livestock Guardian Dogs Keeping Heritage Hens Safe: http://countrysidenetwork.com/tag/livestock-guardian/

Finally, the books I insist all of my clients own and read: Turid Rugaas, renowned dog behaviorist in Europe. Her books are affordable, easy to digest and read, and no hoy-faloy talk or PhD mumbo jumbo. Anyone can understand her books and if you will read them, you'll open your eyes to better understanding of dog body language and behavior that can help you have a more enjoyable relationship with any of your dogs, whether they are pets, herders, or LGDs. http://https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=turid+rugaas

 

[chickens really]

As I stated...LGD are not bred to chased, hunt, retrieve anything other than protect...My Maremma Finn would never touch a Chicken, duck, child, horse or another dog here on my property...The most wonderful dog I have ever owned. Protects myself as my entire flock/herd of animals....I read the post and agree with some of what was stated...This is not a Dog training site though. ...Other breeds are not bred to do the job.
My LGD WAS STARTED WITH CHICKS...He was 1 years old. Loved the job, still does. lays by my coop and Duck pen watching for all predators ! I can leave my birds out and he will never touch them.
..My Aussies that know better chase them if I do not sit and babysit them...

I have 25 years in dog training and know how dogs think....

 

[Kyanite]

We worked with our already docile and well mannered family dog to behave around the chickens. Our expectations were to be able to free range them, but still be able to have her outside with us supervised. She blew us away and has anointed herself the chicken protector. However, she is NOT a LGD. She simply treats my flock beautifully while they are free ranging and keeps watchful eye over the property. We found out just how much so when a neighbor's guest dog was left unattended and wandered onto our property. Our sweet girl has always treated every dog that has stopped by as a new play buddy, but not this time. Even though the chickens were safely in their enclosed run, she gave a fierce alert bark and tried to drive this dog away. There was NO play in her. I've never seen her behave like that in the 5 years we've had her (since she was a wee pup). I do think that a couple previous visits from somewhat aggressive dogs at large, that she tried to play with and was quickly rebuffed by, could also have played into this reaction, but she is good buddies with chickens and this dog came right around the side of the run. Yes, we can leave her outside with them and they are fine, but she is a people dog and would much rather be with us. She is NOT a substitute for a good solid secure coop at night since she sleeps in our bedroom, or us being around during the day when we let the chickens range. But, she is a helpful lookout and we know now that she means business protecting "her" flock. We also know that she can be trusted with them. Our chickens think she makes a wonderful buffet table after she has rolled in dried grass and dirt. It's hilarious to see them all gathered around cleaning off the dog.

How did we do it? Well, she already had the temperament. That was luck. The rest was having her with us every step of the way from when we got the chicks, to moving them into their coop, to beginning free ranging. She is a people pleaser and if she even senses that you are upset with her she becomes very submissive, and we had firmly established "leave it" from puppyhood. Sure, she has one heck of a prey drive at times. She LOVES chasing chipmunks, squirrels, raccoons, wild turkeys (although she quit chasing turkeys once she was socialized with the chickens). She still does chase squirrels and chipmunks like crazy, and even catches and kills them sometimes. The important part is that in her training from and early age she became so disciplined that we can at any time call her off even in the heat of the chase. She cares MORE about pleasing us, her alphas and her pack, than chasing whatever she is after. This is a dog that we can tell "no" when she wants the canned kitty food treat the cats are getting, then leave the room and she will not touch it. It HAS to be more than just being good around the chickens, your dog must respect and obey you flawlessly on other things too or I'd be cautious. It has always been about positive or negative reinforcement with ours. We have never once hit her, used shock or choke collars or any violence. Dominance yes, violence and pain no. She trusts us unconditionally. First and foremost she is our pet and a very loved member of the family. Her willingness to share flock guarding with is is an added bonus.

 

[chickens really]

Great news about your Dog....Would you totally trust her to watch your flock if you left home for an hour or two???

That is what the topic is about. My AUSSIES No....My LGD Maremma, Yes.........

Glad your dog does what it needs too for your situation.

 

[Kyanite]

Great news about your Dog....Would you totally trust her to watch your flock if you left home for an hour or two???

That is what the topic is about. My AUSSIES No....My LGD Maremma, Yes.........

Glad your dog does what it needs too for your situation.

She probably would do fine, but I'll never test it. We don't leave her out when we go to to town, and same goes for the chickens. Since she isn't trained as as LGD, and isn't of one of those breeds either, all bets are off on what might happen if she really had her hands full with a determined predator or another dog. But, it's nice to know that when we are inside she will alert us to trouble. That's more than we were expecting of her. Like I said, she's our pet that we just hoped would be OK with them while we were directly supervising. I don't think anything more can be expected of any dog that isn't a LGD breed with proper training. It just so happens that she exceeded those expectations, likely due to a combination of her temperament, training already in place, and continued socialization with the chickens.

 

[chickens really]

She probably would do fine, but I'll never test it. We don't leave her out when we go to to town, and same goes for the chickens. Since she isn't trained as as LGD, and isn't of one of those breeds either, all bets are off on what might happen if she really had her hands full with a determined predator or another dog. But, it's nice to know that when we are inside she will alert us to trouble. That's more than we were expecting of her. Like I said, she's our pet that we just hoped would be OK with them while we were directly supervising. I don't think anything more can be expected of any dog that isn't a LGD breed with proper training. It just so happens that she exceeded those expectations, likely due to a combination of her temperament, training already in place, and continued socialization with the chickens.

Yes, all that plays out in dogs with livestock.....Just common sense over Dog sense needs to be in order.


Enjoy the dog and your birds..

 

[chickens really]

No
I know dogs for what they are and know what breeds are bred for certain specific needs.
I love all dogs and this is a chicken site not a dog site.
Training dogs is a privilege I enjoy... Chickens are a hobby I enjoy.
They can live in harmony but it takes training and the right breed to succeed..

 

[orrpeople]

We don't have LGDs, we have two Kelpie crosses (I know, I know, notorious herding breed!) But, from the very beginning, before we had birds, they left our cats alone (and were even a little frightened of them!) So, we had a hunch they might be okay with chickens. And, they are. We did spend A LOT of time with them at the beginning -tons of training, tons of treats, but now, they have successfully warded away birds of prey and raccoons. They also enjoy sharing a good dirt bath with the ladies, and "hang out" with them all day. (Although one of them seems to enjoy eating chicken poo -ugh!) But, I guess what I'm saying is that temperament is a huge factor - kind of like having a rooster - a dog can either create the best, or the worst environment for your flock!

 

[sourland]

PatriciafromCO has provided some of the best insight on this subject that I have seen on this site. I commend her.