Lemon pyle coloring

[IcameIsawIleft]

Okay, I was hoping I could get this started up again.
Could some one give me an idea on how to breed wyandottes to get a lemon pyle/red pyle/splash blue partridge coloring.
Also, Krys109uk, could you post a picture of you blue partridge orpingtons?
Thanks for all the input so far!!

 

[Krys109uk]

What the people are calling 'Lemon Pyle' in brahmas is not the same colour as blue partridge or splash blue partridge.
For blue partridge wyandottes, I'd go with FMP's method, it would work, the only faster route, I can think, is blue silver pencilled to partridge.

I'm not great with a camera the only pic I have with blue partridge orps is what I had in the breeding pen earlier this year which was a blue partridge male on normal partridge females.....I thought I had a pic of the male.... apparently not. Here is a pic of the normal partridge hens.
These birds are not quite there yet & still have a few things which need to be sorted.
I have blue partridge chicks growing on; they are still at the stage of looking barred.

In this one can just see the top of the male's head with his poor frostbitten comb.

...we live in Minnesota (enough said?)

 

[IcameIsawIleft]

Okay thanks!
Do you know of a hatchery that sells partridge wyandottes?
I was thinking of getting the blrw from Mcmurray.

 

[Rootball]

I have to get my genetics book that I have been looking for for a few days....but lemon pyle will be hard.


True red pyle is Dominant white on an E+ partridge(wild type) but will probably look the same on an eb PG penciled partridge.

Dominant white dilutes black and leaves red which is what blue does also and which is why the splash blue partridges look like red pyles.


Ideal Hatchery I belive is the only US hatchery to sell LF Partridge Wyandottes, many others sell bantams. However if you are going to go to all the trouble you might as well start with better than hatchery stock from a private breeder.

additionally Im not sure I agree that BLR wyandottes are the easiest way to add blue to your strain but I might be wrong.

If you are most interested in a red pyle type of bird you might do some research and go the white route although Blue partridges are beautiful birds.

 

[Krys109uk]

The birds being referred to as 'lemon pyle' brahmas on the website aren't really pyle birds as we know them because they're not e+. The birds in the photos are splash buff columbian.

The website also has splash partridge brahmas but not listed as 'lemon pyle'

How would you go about making blue partridge wyandottes?

 

[IcameIsawIleft]

Beautiful birds Krys!
Thanks for all the input!

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
I think the lemon refers to red leaking through a blue-splash white or a blue background. Think about it- you have lemon blues but they are not a cream. They are are birchen, gold and blue.


I have produced birds that look like the "lemon pyle". The birds carried dominant white and wheaten. You do not want the birds to carry mahogany because it will darken the color. If the birds carry "autosomal red" it will also make the back darker. I would take pictures of the birds I described but I sold the birds as layers. I have to pay the feed bill (close to 500 dollars so far this year)

If you use dominant white to make the birds you are in for some fun. Dominant white is a quirky gene and acts differently on different gene combinations. You would have to get the dominant white from a white wyandotte ( the breeder would have to know that the birds carried dominant white) or the next choice woud be a red sex linked.

I would say the lemon pyle in the pictures are blue-splashed white also called splash.(as Krys has stated) The birds also carry melanotic, charcoal or some other black extender because the hackles are white.

The lemon pyle variety is actually a black bird with red leaking through. You add the two blue genes and you get the lighter red (lemon color) on a white or blue-splashed white ground color.

How you go about breeding for the bird depends on what breeds you can find or have to use for breeding.

1. I would start with a blue-splashed white or a blue crossed to a partridge (parents).

2. In the offspring (F1), select for birds that are blue and leaking the most lemon (buff/red)- Back cross the leaking F1 to the partridge parent this will produce back cross 1 offspring (BC1)

If you produce enough BC1 offspring, you can get some blue partridge from this cross; some will carry a melanotic gene so they will have black in the neck hackles and back. Pick the best birds and back cross them to a partridge parent to produce BC2. You should get good blue partridge in the BC2 offspring.

back to making lemons

You could use an F1 bird to make a lemon or just cross a blue bird bird with a buff columbian.

1. I would go with the blue bird(female) crossed with a buff columbian (male) The F1 from the blue bird with a buff columbian will be black or blue leaking red.

2. Back cross the blue female F1s to the male buff columbian. Hatch 20 eggs or so. You should get some blue, melanized ( lots of blue on head and hackle) buff columbian BC1. From the BC1 pick the birds that look the most like the lemons but with the blue instead of the blue-splashed white.

4. Cross a blue BC1 male with a blue BC1 female(s) - you should get some of the birds you want from the cross. Then start breeding for specific characteristics.

Tim

 

[Krys109uk]

Sorry misunderstood what was written.

The lemon pyle variety is actually a black bird with red leaking through. You add the two blue genes and you get the lighter red (lemon color) on a white or blue-splashed white ground color.

Ignoring the name of the colour & just looking at the birds themselves, in particular the photos of the male.
http://chirpychicks.com/lemon_pyle_brahma.htm

Then looking at these.
http://chirpychicks.com/buff_columbian_brahma.htm

Considering ease of making a new colour & considering buff columbian is a colour already established in Brahmas.
Don't you think it more likely that the birds in the pics are splash buff columbian?

I think sometimes misleading names are given to birds, possibly to make them sound more exotic......such as the violet laced or was it lilac laced wyandottes which were nothing more than blue laced silver.​

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
I can see that you might be able to make a red pyle look-alike by using a very light background splash partridge, but lemon colouring is usually a diluted buff (lemon blues--and perhaps others that I am not aware of--excepted), so you have to add Di or ig or cb. Seems like it would be easier to simply add that dilution gene to an I-based red pyle.

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
Ignoring the name of the colour & just looking at the birds themselves, in particular the photos of the male.
http://chirpychicks.com/lemon_pyle_brahma.htm

Then looking at these.
http://chirpychicks.com/buff_columbian_brahma.htm

Considering ease of making a new colour & considering buff columbian is a colour already established in Brahmas.
Don't you think it more likely that the birds in the pics are splash buff columbian?

I think sometimes misleading names are given to birds, possibly to make them sound more exotic......such as the violet laced or was it lilac laced wyandottes which were nothing more than blue laced silver.

Krys,

I would agree that the birds on the Chirpy site are blue-splashed white columbian. But they have an additional gene(s) adding black pigment that is hypostatic to the blue gene. Look at the picture with the three hens and the roo. Her head is heavily pigmented with eumelanin and she still has some lacing on her breast from the pattern gene.

The pictures at the beginning of the string are different( at least they look different to me) than the birds on the Chirpy site. They should be columbian restricted to get the lemon color on the breast but they have a large amount of diluted eumelanin in their feathers. The hen that is above the rest of the birds is genetically different than the roo and the other hen.

My mistake (which was a big one) I forgot to add an additional bird in my crossing regimen. After the blue partridge, I should have included a columbian restricted variety( buff columbian). I wrote the regimen as if I had included the cross. Note the false spangling and lacing.

Thanks for catching my mistake. I will go back and edit the breeding regimen. I worked out the genetics in my head- I guess I should work out the genetics on paper then do my writing.



Tim