Let’s Talk About Bird Flu

[Crazy Maizie]

I participated in a webinar this week put on by my state's animal health department (Indiana-BOAH). The doctor from Purdue who was the main speaker said that getting chicks (and therefore I would assume eggs) from the large mail order hatcheries is safe. The hatcheries have to follow strict protocols for disease control.
Not related to your question but he also said that buying chicks at a farm store is not a great idea at this time due to their being exposed to the public. Also said that if for some reason you are integrating new birds into your established flock they should be quarantined for a minimum of 21 days for observation prior to introduction.
It was a decent program, BOAH is supposed to have it available for viewing on their website next week (week of 2/24/25).

I'm watching this now. It's posted on YouTube.
Hoping my question is asked on the webinar - just getting to those now. But, I am wondering how much of a risk mice really are. I do have hw cloth and have a hw cloth barrier around the outer perimeter, but I didn't dig it down, just made a skirt. Well the turds just dig under the hw cloth. Also, I used a 1/2" and contrary to belief, they can squeeze through it if determined. I put feed away every evening. However, I have ducks and sometimes a little feed is on the ground which I try to clean up, but it's almost impossible to get every crumb. Also, apparently rodents will eat poo anyway, so I don't see that I would dissuade them much if that's what they will feast on. Though I do clean up as much poo as possible daily.
I wasn't as concerned as much until just the other day but now it's in my county.

 

[AntiqueB]

I'm watching this now. It's posted on YouTube.
Hoping my question is asked on the webinar - just getting to those now. But, I am wondering how much of a risk mice really are. I do have hw cloth and have a hw cloth barrier around the outer perimeter, but I didn't dig it down, just made a skirt. Well the turds just dig under the hw cloth. Also, I used a 1/2" and contrary to belief, they can squeeze through it if determined. I put feed away every evening. However, I have ducks and sometimes a little feed is on the ground which I try to clean up, but it's almost impossible to get every crumb. Also, apparently rodents will eat poo anyway, so I don't see that I would dissuade them much if that's what they will feast on. Though I do clean up as much poo as possible daily.
I wasn't as concerned as much until just the other day but now it's in my county.

Do you have a link for the program?

 

[Crazy Maizie]

Do you have a link for the program?

 

[Molpet]

I'm watching this now. It's posted on YouTube.
Hoping my question is asked on the webinar - just getting to those now. But, I am wondering how much of a risk mice really are. I do have hw cloth and have a hw cloth barrier around the outer perimeter, but I didn't dig it down, just made a skirt. Well the turds just dig under the hw cloth. Also, I used a 1/2" and contrary to belief, they can squeeze through it if determined. I put feed away every evening. However, I have ducks and sometimes a little feed is on the ground which I try to clean up, but it's almost impossible to get every crumb. Also, apparently rodents will eat poo anyway, so I don't see that I would dissuade them much if that's what they will feast on. Though I do clean up as much poo as possible daily.
I wasn't as concerned as much until just the other day but now it's in my county.

What did you learn from the video?

I went to town today. On the way I seen several flocks of geese 3/4 of a mile from my house. At least 500 geese, probably closer to a thousand.

 

[Bronx girls]

Following so that know the facts

 

[Crazy Maizie]

What did you learn from the video?

I went to town today. On the way I seen several flocks of geese 3/4 of a mile from my house. At least 500 geese, probably closer to a thousand.

Not much new. But, they said you quarantine new birds for 21 days which is different than most of the advice here on byc. They said not to wear your "street clothes" to the coop. They were referring to if you go out to the feed store or another person's farm you should not wear those same clothes/boots into your coop. It makes sense, but I normally don't wear the same clothes out that I wear in the coop and I never have my boots on any other property. If you have visitors to your coop, you should make them either change shoes, put bags over them, or have a washing station before going in (and back out).

Usually when I get feed from the feed store, I take my vehicle through our yard back to the coop. My husband said I probably shouldn't do that rn. It makes sense, but it's something I never thought of.

My main concern right now is mice because they said to limit their access which I do, but I still have mice (as stated above). No one asked about rodents on the webinar, but I found some articles that said mice can be carriers.

 

[Molpet]

Not much new. But, they said you quarantine new birds for 21 days which is different than most of the advice here on byc. They said not to wear your "street clothes" to the coop. They were referring to if you go out to the feed store or another person's farm you should not wear those same clothes/boots into your coop. It makes sense, but I normally don't wear the same clothes out that I wear in the coop and I never have my boots on any other property. If you have visitors to your coop, you should make them either change shoes, put bags over them, or have a washing station before going in (and back out).

Usually when I get feed from the feed store, I take my vehicle through our yard back to the coop. My husband said I probably shouldn't do that rn. It makes sense, but it's something I never thought of.

My main concern right now is mice because they said to limit their access which I do, but I still have mice (as stated above). No one asked about rodents on the webinar, but I found some articles that said mice can be carriers.

I have always had different clothes and boots for Town. The poultry have been coming up around the car lately. I will have to see about parking it somewhere else . I only go to town a couple day a month.
I don't let people near the poultry yard.
I had heard quarantine new birds for a month before AI.

I had just heard about dandruff and wind spreading it when wilds fly over.

 

[Goosebaby]

I was learning about MRSA recently, a type of bacteria found in humans that's developed immunity to antibiotics. In the wiki article the following is said-

So in other words, despite doctors specifically trying to prevent this from occuring, penicillin immune S. Aureus bacteria went from under 1% of the population to over 90% worldwide and even as high as 98% in some regions

This is the development of natural immunity in a population. Imagine if the farming industry attempted something similar with livestock: simply allow the survivors to reproduce

Nearly all S. Aureus bacteria is immune to penicillin now because the survivors reproduced

Natural immunity protects pathogens against the entire medical industry trying to kill them, yet this simple and obvious principle is ignored with livestock and the exact opposite is practiced with disastrous results

Natural immunity is an important angle to consider, but in the context of the current bird flu epidemic it’s important to consider how practical that is considering the nature of this virus itself and how it affects certain species.

Wild ducks are a main reservoir and have been, duck biology seems to grant them partial resistance, which is good for the ducks that manage to survive it, not so good for other species, especially raptors, vultures, pheasants, turkeys, chickens, etc which do not have that natural resistance.

For the virus itself it prefers a host species with that tolerance. It can continue to infect, replicate, and spread via the vector species, whereas with a species like chickens, it can infect an entire flock and within days that whole flock will be dead and if it hasn’t managed to spread to another host it will die with those chickens. Viruses are primarily spread via hosts that do not have severe immune responses and so tolerate the pathogen. Hosts that have severe immune responses usually die with the pathogen their immune system is trying to kill so they’re essentially dead ends for their species and the virus.

So that is the main issue, natural immunity exists for ducks, not so much for other species, they’re dead ends. A flock of chickens that gets hit with HPAI is pretty much guaranteed to die, there is no natural immunity that arises from it.

However there is LPAI. Low pathogenic avian influenza doesn’t hit the immune system of many species as hard as HPAI, because of this it has been known that birds infected with strains of LPAI have shown some immunity to HPAI. So HPAI will just eradicate a flock of chickens but if that same flock had contracted LPAI there’s a chance some may survive it.
LPAI is a riskier virus because of that however, it’s always one mutation away from leaving its benign habits and becoming a mass killer, and because it’s more widespread the greater the odds of doing so.

Another thing to consider is even with survivors natural immunity isn’t going to be hereditary. The next generation won’t inherit some encoded resistance to the virus if it returns to the flock.
A good comparison would be the Spanish flu vs Swine flu. When swine flu emerged in 2009 it was a mystery at first because it barely affected the elderly whereas it made younger people and especially pregnant women very sick. The reason was swine flu and Spanish flu are very similar, Spanish flu also affected pregnant women severely, however Spanish flu didn’t exactly spare the elderly in it’s first speed run around the globe whereas swine flu did spare the elderly. The reason why is because many people prior to the late 1950s had been exposed to the Spanish flu, their immune systems remembered it and recognized the key similarities in swine flu, thus they were spared, but they didn’t pass that immunity on. Their children and grandchildren had no immunity when swine flu appeared, it hit the young hard.

So in relation to bird flu, natural immunity/herd immunity isn’t really a thing unless the same virus or mostly the same is going around, if it’s a new strain that the immune system doesn’t recognize, there is no natural immunity.

The main reason the primary method of control was depopulation was it was effective. In previous outbreaks in Southeast Asia it did work. It stopped the spread of the virus. The difference between then and now is HPAI is not secluded in one small area, it’s endemic in nearly every environment now so depopulating a flock is no longer an effective means of control because it just keeps reappearing. Natural immunity is a limited means of combating the epidemic for the reasons I mentioned but there needs to be a different method than relying on the now redundant method of depopulation.

I can’t say what’s in the mind of viral researchers but my guess is that’s the conclusion they came to when exploration of hpai vaccines began in Europe ages ago and now here in the U.S with the zoetisvaccine that’s been under development the last few years. Bird flu is everywhere so vaccination now seems like it may be the primary method of limiting the loss of poultry. Proactive treatment rather than reactive depopulation. Vaccines through dead dna or rna also do not carry the risk of mutation like LPAI infection or another live vaccine.

 

[ManOverBoard]

Has anyone had chickens with the bird flu that didn't drop dead?

 

[Goosebaby]

I'm finding there is so much mis information about the bird flu and appreciate having this forum to find out whats what, that and the CDC's own website.

Unfortunately there is, and I find most of it primarily comes from those trying to peddle their own wares or boost their YouTube channels by encouraging mistrust in mainstream brands or research, and those that are uneducated about avian health, farming, or pathogens, that spread it. So far also the people saying that “they’re just trying to spread fear” seem to be the ones actually trying to spread fear.

So far I’ve noticed it’s mostly the same ones that were going around a few years ago: “they’re poisoning feed to stop birds from laying and that’s why my chickens I got in spring now aren’t laying in the middle of winter.” “Bird flu isn’t real, they’re just trying to raise the price of eggs.” “Bird flu was created to raise the price of eggs.” “There’s birth control in bird food.” “There’s no egg shortage, it’s a lie.”
“Gain of function” is the latest boogeyman buzzword but again that’s being spread around most by people who site the term as proof of nefarious activities without any legitimate proof of said activities other than citing the term itself and knowing the names of some of the virologists who studied it. Gain of function has legitimate risks but it also has legitimate benefits from researching it. However an area of study simply existing isn’t proof that HPAI was artificially created or that it should be ignored entirely.