Let me help you find the best dog breed that matches your life style and needs:

What is the purpose of you choosing a dog? Mostly guarding the place. Have lost several chickens and 2 turkeys.

Small homestead, not quite 5 acres. Not fenced. Does have a fenced backyard.

Mostly outside dog.

Any livestock? Ducks and chickens. Plan to possibly add pigs, turkeys, or goats, or sheep. Have an indoor cat but that might change when she is spayed in September.

Your experience with dogs in general: Lived with dogs all my life. Black Labs, Golden Retrievers. Our current dog is a Beagle, very sweet but afraid of his own shaddow.

Your pet peeves. No jumping on people, no licking.

The home,land,exercise and attention you are happy to give your dog? Medium sized house on less than 5 acres. Medium attention.

Your family size and structure? Two adults on each side of 60, 7 yo grandson lives with us.

Do you want to walk your dog in public places like parks off leash? Nope, but want a dog who listens.
I am not sure what category of dog is better for you you could go two ways:
Livestock Guardian Dog category:
They prefer to stay with their flock and animals 24/7 and they are not indoor dogs per se. To them it does not make sense to leave their animals alone and stay with you inside. If you plan to have some more animals down the road then LGD is better for you.

Farm dog Category:
These breeds will guard your property during the day and stay with you inside during the nights or severe weathers. Reality is that almost 90 percent of the animal attacks happens in nights when your dog would not be there to fend your property.
It does not mean they are not effective but they have limited time to protect the property.

What is your predator load and what animal you are protecting against is another issue.

LGDs are mostly independent and they come mostly preprogrammed if you buy your puppy from active farms. Little training is about socializing them than anything else.
If you want no casualty for your birds LGD is your better choice.

Farm dogs are not quite preprogrammed as LGDs and your training makes all the difference. Just like a computer that needs Windows (operating system)to work they need you to program them accordingly.
Since you have a beagle inside then maybe LGD is better for you.

Which category do you think fits you better ? let me know.
 
I am not sure what category of dog is better for you you could go two ways:
Livestock Guardian Dog category:
They prefer to stay with their flock and animals 24/7 and they are not indoor dogs per se. To them it does not make sense to leave their animals alone and stay with you inside. If you plan to have some more animals down the road then LGD is better for you.

Farm dog Category:
These breeds will guard your property during the day and stay with you inside during the nights or severe weathers. Reality is that almost 90 percent of the animal attacks happens in nights when your dog would not be there to fend your property.
It does not mean they are not effective but they have limited time to protect the property.

What is your predator load and what animal you are protecting against is another issue.

LGDs are mostly independent and they come mostly preprogrammed if you buy your puppy from active farms. Little training is about socializing them than anything else.
If you want no casualty for your birds LGD is your better choice.

Farm dogs are not quite preprogrammed as LGDs and your training makes all the difference. Just like a computer that needs Windows (operating system)to work they need you to program them accordingly.
Since you have a beagle inside then maybe LGD is better for you.

Which category do you think fits you better ? let me know.
The preditors would be raccoons, opossums, and maybe foxes. My neighbor says there are coyotes too.
The ducks and chickens free range during the day.
Was thinking LGD but you know more about them than I do. My neighbor has one, someone had abandoned it and it adopted her. Probably someone who was not prepared for how they are. Can't wait to see what you recommend.
 
The preditors would be raccoons, opossums, and maybe foxes. My neighbor says there are coyotes too.
The ducks and chickens free range during the day.
Was thinking LGD but you know more about them than I do. My neighbor has one, someone had abandoned it and it adopted her. Probably someone who was not prepared for how they are. Can't wait to see what you recommend.
I think LGD suits you just fine. If possible any of these breeds works almost the same :

Akbash: To my surprise this LGD has found its way to every corner of North America and Australia . It is an ancient Turkish breed . Many large ranchers and farms use them. LGD work the best in pairs but your acreage does not seem to warrant two dogs. Akbash is not rare. They do the job they are asked no matter what. No fuss, no drama, no surprise.
If you don't fix them they will roam around but they will not abandon the farm completely.
Akbash is like a reliable car that takes you from A to B and works forever without oil change and maintenance.

Maremma Sheepdog: Same as Akbash but maybe harder to find and possibly more expensive depending on case. Proven poultry protection breed some say. I have a love for this breed since I know couple of them.

Kuvasz: Same like akbash but rare.
All 3 above LGDs have many common ancestors and to me they are very closely related.

Great Pyrenese: I only recommend GP to people who have a very stable large farm and more than 2 LGDs. They will protect your homestead if they are available. I personally have been followed by a GP in one of my hikes here in Canada. After a few miles I phoned the number I found on his collar . The owner reassured me he has the habit of following hikers on trail and he will go back when he pleases. He followed me for 10 miles before he turned back.

You may find a mix of GP/Maremma or GP/Akbash easier than Pure maremma or Akbash but I would try to avoid hybrids in LGDs. That is my policy and philosophy and it does not mean they are not fine dogs.

Out of LGD: If you want a proven low maintenance farm dog Rough Collie is a good choice.

If you like a dog that is not friendly to strangers and is true meaning of no non sense and get the job done then go with Australian Cattle Dog. They can be safe around the poultry by little training. They look and act like tough guys and they back it up by their courage.

Now if you want to go fancy and have some money to spend then go with A working line Belgian Sheepdog. They crave your attention more than many other breeds but oh my god they are smart, conning, brave , practical and magnificent. Workaholic

Working line German Shepherd is also an option but it depends on finding a level headed working line German Shepherd and avoiding commercial breeders.
A few pedigree German shepherd I have seen around here seemed lost in real farm environment like they were in Mars.

Hovawart: This is the breed I will have for my homestead down the road. Extremely hard to find but exactly what an indoor/outdoor farm dog should be IMHO.

BTW none of this breed will jump on people nor they like to lick people or be licked.
 
Wow, this is so exciting! If you are making recommendations, what would you recommend as a breed for our family?

Moderately active couple in their 30s
1/2 acre including garden
Suburban neighborhood
6 foot hogwire fenced yard
Small backyard hens flock
Indoor cat, Russian blue, 4 years old
Thinking about babies in the next few years - kids in the neighborhood

Looking for:
Good with animals
Allergy friendly or low dander coat - some dogs I have a reaction to, others not so much
Calm, willing to please, smart
Wants to be near us
Intuitive breeds, good for therapy dog or easily trained
Can lounge with me for naps and cuddles
Husband wants dog to be a bit more active for jogs around the block a couple of times per week, car rides, as well as cuddles
Size - medium seems to be what we agree on - 20-45 lbs.
Minimal barking
Chill
Maybe doesn’t do “dog” things like digging

I like to spend time meditating, lounging around, with walks a couple of times per week. Hubby likes a dog that is smart and active. We like an indoor dog and would be a bonus if we could train them or if they came naturally knowing how to protect chickens from overhead hawks or to nudge them out of the garden beds and into their run.

We had been looking at Keeshonds and are open to other breeds as well.

Looking forward to your recommendations!
 
I have been intimately involved with Canine and specifically Livestock Guardian dogs and sheepdogs and Sheppard breeds for almost forty years.

My last dog was( it is the first time I am using was for him instead of is) a Shetland Sheepdog who filled the last 15 years of my Canadian Life with joy and passed away ten day ago.

I have kept Caucasian Sheppard as a pet and guard dog for years. I used to live in Iran and moved to Canada 16 years ago. My last dog was a Caucasian Sheppard/ German Sheppard mix who her first litter was the lucky number of 13 puppies.

More than anything I am passionate about dogs and dog breeds.

When my dog Delta was young I used to take him to the local dog park so he can socialize with other dogs and I can also improve my social skills . There in the park was a young Japanese lady around 24 years old. She had a German Sheppard that was big and full of curiosity and energy. She was a very petit girl weighing less than the dog. Dog was too energetic and wild to be off leash so he was always pulling her toward whatever he wanted to sniff or play with.

She was always tired since she was working all day and in the afternoon even the thought of walking her dog was a painful chore. Plus her dog was notoriously infamous for playing harsh with smaller dogs. We all liked her but not her dog.

On day after couple of years knowing each other I asked her what was the reason she picked German Sheppard . She said when she was a kid back in Japan she used to watch a TV show staring a German Sheppard so she followed her raw childhood dream.
I think almost every country has a long lasting TV show staring German Sheppard . I know we had two of them in Iran. Inspector Rex was one of them.

How many bored German Sheppard and frustrated owner are victim of Hollywood and dog TV shows, only God knows

For choosing Shetland Sheepdog when I moved to Canada I used three different online website and answered their question honestly and they gave me a list of ten breed each. Shetland Sheepdog was top three in all three websites. It worked for me.

Now I know a lot more about breeds and dogs in general. If you are thinking about choosing a breed to fit the bill , I think I can help you choose the right breed. Specially I know a lot about Livestock Guardian Dogs and larger dogs in general.

Give it a go, what do you have to lose ? It is just a suggestion but can save you a lot of headaches the wrong breed may and will create for you.

That Japanese friend of mine now has a small dog. I suggested the breed to her. Every now and then I used to take my dog to old neighborhood and she looked happy when her small well behaved dog was playing with other dogs. She was the same owner, it was just the right breed.

Anybody thinking about a new dog?
Wow, I wish I had seen this thread prior to September!! Still curious what you'd say.

I have a small human (age 8), 14 chickens, two dogs, a cat, and a microfarm with orchard with 4ft chain link at the suburban/rural fringe. The Pyr/lab isn't "chicken-safe" and the beagle follows her nose too much, so they aren't let to roam much. Looking to acquire a larger property where I can expand the orchard, raise niche crops, and possibly sheep or goats. I'd like to keep deer and other critters from eating fruit in the orchard. We have coyotes and a ton of dogs in our area. Grew up with hunting dogs: lab retriever; Gordon setter; German short-haired pointer. Some years back I fell in love with a Hovawart, but lacked the right situation at the time to get one.

What I like about our Pyr/lab is his protectiveness of humans, mostly calm demeanor, and in his history guarding sheep. He's pretty people-oriented for a Pyr, and certainly less "needy" or sensitive than the beagle. Do wish he were chicken safe. From prior experience, I wouldn't consider: Heeler (separation anxiety); Chesapeake Bay Retriever (high strung and can "flip" quick); Spitz or small/yappy (annoying). Am not really a fan of big droolers.
 
Wow, I wish I had seen this thread prior to September!! Still curious what you'd say.

I have a small human (age 8), 14 chickens, two dogs, a cat, and a microfarm with orchard with 4ft chain link at the suburban/rural fringe. The Pyr/lab isn't "chicken-safe" and the beagle follows her nose too much, so they aren't let to roam much. Looking to acquire a larger property where I can expand the orchard, raise niche crops, and possibly sheep or goats. I'd like to keep deer and other critters from eating fruit in the orchard. We have coyotes and a ton of dogs in our area. Grew up with hunting dogs: lab retriever; Gordon setter; German short-haired pointer. Some years back I fell in love with a Hovawart, but lacked the right situation at the time to get one.

What I like about our Pyr/lab is his protectiveness of humans, mostly calm demeanor, and in his history guarding sheep. He's pretty people-oriented for a Pyr, and certainly less "needy" or sensitive than the beagle. Do wish he were chicken safe. From prior experience, I wouldn't consider: Heeler (separation anxiety); Chesapeake Bay Retriever (high strung and can "flip" quick); Spitz or small/yappy (annoying). Am not really a fan of big droolers.
Thanks for stopping by.

You have such a rich and quite funny history of past dog breeds that makes it challenging and fun to suggest a dog breed.
You mentioned you enjoy the calm demeanor of your pyr/lab. That tells me you like a confident, content dog that is aroused only when necessary and the rest of the time he is just chilling around and just happy that everything is normal.

If you choose a medium size guardian dog like Hovawart ( one of my dream dogs) or German Shepherd then your dog or dogs might lose half of the time to coyotes and other stray dogs and you might find them limping or injured from time to time.

You need a dog that is naturally roaming around and ready to fight and protect with no hesitation and checking every corner and is livestock friendly in its DNA.

If you want to be practical a working pure Pyrenees dog is easiest to find in this part of world but they are big and they drool. Other than being just a little bit stubborn I don't see a negative in Pyr for you. Easy to find and cheap and mostly actively working LGD and Cute and famous for their Zen like calmness.

If you want 100 percent calm and protection just around your homestead ( and not that much your orchard) then you will enjoy venturing into the world of Tibetan mastiff but they drool a lot and are expensive and rare to find real working line.

If you need a dog that does not know how to fail and get the job done and is extremely low maintenance and intimidating then go for a Turkish Kangal ( extremely rare ) or if not possible a working Anatolian Shepherd ( very easy to find) . This breed is the ultimate LGD and fruit of a the Turkish Nation thousand year obsession in creating ultimate LGD .If you ask me Kangal is the ultimate LGD in real world of farming. No weakness. None.
Even their drooling is not prominent.

Maremma Sheepdog to me is very close to Pyr but more focused on the job than Pyr and less courageous than pyr. I think they use their brain more than Pyr.

Hovawart is almost impossible to find and prone to problems of shallow Gene pool and they are more State and around home protectors than orchard protector and certainly not big enough or mean enough in today's world to discourage a coyote or two. Extremely enticing breed though for me and you , right? Just remind you they are quite high maintenance if they have no job to do but a dream dog in right situation.

If I want to go to war and I have to choose two breed of dog to protect me in real fight , I will choose one Kangal and one Alabai ( Central Asian Shepherd).

Alabai is another Ultimate LGD but they are born to drool and they are going to protect your property with their lives. They are very intimidating and extremely confident and for many scary but extremely dedicated to protect you and your livestock and property with minimum maintenance.
 
Thanks for stopping by.

You have such a rich and quite funny history of past dog breeds that makes it challenging and fun to suggest a dog breed.
You mentioned you enjoy the calm demeanor of your pyr/lab. That tells me you like a confident, content dog that is aroused only when necessary and the rest of the time he is just chilling around and just happy that everything is normal.

If you choose a medium size guardian dog like Hovawart ( one of my dream dogs) or German Shepherd then your dog or dogs might lose half of the time to coyotes and other stray dogs and you might find them limping or injured from time to time.

You need a dog that is naturally roaming around and ready to fight and protect with no hesitation and checking every corner and is livestock friendly in its DNA.

If you want to be practical a working pure Pyrenees dog is easiest to find in this part of world but they are big and they drool. Other than being just a little bit stubborn I don't see a negative in Pyr for you. Easy to find and cheap and mostly actively working LGD and Cute and famous for their Zen like calmness.

If you want 100 percent calm and protection just around your homestead ( and not that much your orchard) then you will enjoy venturing into the world of Tibetan mastiff but they drool a lot and are expensive and rare to find real working line.

If you need a dog that does not know how to fail and get the job done and is extremely low maintenance and intimidating then go for a Turkish Kangal ( extremely rare ) or if not possible a working Anatolian Shepherd ( very easy to find) . This breed is the ultimate LGD and fruit of a the Turkish Nation thousand year obsession in creating ultimate LGD .If you ask me Kangal is the ultimate LGD in real world of farming. No weakness. None.
Even their drooling is not prominent.

Maremma Sheepdog to me is very close to Pyr but more focused on the job than Pyr and less courageous than pyr. I think they use their brain more than Pyr.

Hovawart is almost impossible to find and prone to problems of shallow Gene pool and they are more State and around home protectors than orchard protector and certainly not big enough or mean enough in today's world to discourage a coyote or two. Extremely enticing breed though for me and you , right? Just remind you they are quite high maintenance if they have no job to do but a dream dog in right situation.

If I want to go to war and I have to choose two breed of dog to protect me in real fight , I will choose one Kangal and one Alabai ( Central Asian Shepherd).

Alabai is another Ultimate LGD but they are born to drool and they are going to protect your property with their lives. They are very intimidating and extremely confident and for many scary but extremely dedicated to protect you and your livestock and property with minimum maintenance.
This will be fun to research some of these that are completely new to me. Thank you so much for your suggestions!

Any concerns with Great Pyrenees and Anatolians wandering out of a 4ft fence? I live near a busy road. Thoughts on Akbash, or do you consider them a class of working dogs rather than a breed? In one of the breed groups I follow, my impression is they are challenging to train/own.

Yes, big fan of one Hovawart from 15-ish years ago named Hank. I named my wood stove after him. :lol:

For your amusement - the Chesapeake Bay Retriever and Spitz (plus Bichon frise, sheltie, boxer, pug, cavalier king charles, cairn terrier, long-haired chihuahua, and other muts) live or lived with other family. The heeler was one of my foster dogs.
 
This will be fun to research some of these that are completely new to me. Thank you so much for your suggestions!

Any concerns with Great Pyrenees and Anatolians wandering out of a 4ft fence? I live near a busy road. Thoughts on Akbash, or do you consider them a class of working dogs rather than a breed? In one of the breed groups I follow, my impression is they are challenging to train/own.

Yes, big fan of one Hovawart from 15-ish years ago named Hank. I named my wood stove after him. :lol:

For your amusement - the Chesapeake Bay Retriever and Spitz (plus Bichon frise, sheltie, boxer, pug, cavalier king charles, cairn terrier, long-haired chihuahua, and other muts) live or lived with other family. The heeler was one of my foster dogs.
Would you say Hovawart is as smart as let's say a Golden retriever?

I have zero problem with a proven Akbash but from my experience it is harder to define a real Akbash. When they do not know what they should call their mixed breed dog often they call them Akbash. A real Akbash is as good as any LGD though.

Once I loved Chesapeake Bay Retriever as a possible pet but now almost any hunting dog is just too much energy to handle specially the first year.

If Kangal or Pyr decides to pass a four feet fence (or even 5 feet in cases) they just do it. Pyr will dig under and Kangal jump over or dig under but they only pass the fence when they feel in order to protect your property they need to create a buffer zone which is not your property( and they know it ) . They patrol it once or twice a week and mark their presence. It depends on work load (busy LGD is a happy LGD) and the predator load and number. They need minimum 2 acre to protect.
 
Would you say Hovawart is as smart as let's say a Golden retriever?

I have zero problem with a proven Akbash but from my experience it is harder to define a real Akbash. When they do not know what they should call their mixed breed dog often they call them Akbash. A real Akbash is as good as any LGD though.

Once I loved Chesapeake Bay Retriever as a possible pet but now almost any hunting dog is just too much energy to handle specially the first year.

If Kangal or Pyr decides to pass a four feet fence (or even 5 feet in cases) they just do it. Pyr will dig under and Kangal jump over or dig under but they only pass the fence when they feel in order to protect your property they need to create a buffer zone which is not your property( and they know it ) . They patrol it once or twice a week and mark their presence. It depends on work load (busy LGD is a happy LGD) and the predator load and number. They need minimum 2 acre to protect.

My sample size of both breeds is probably too small to draw any meaningful conclusions. One of the Goldens was dumb as a rock, but loyal and protective. I'd guess the other was probably smarter than Hank, who did at times have a playful side.

The 2 acre minimum for Pyr is useful info!

My parents have the Chesapeake. She can be a real sweet dog, but I find her situationally unreliable (kids, smaller dogs) and too easily aroused. She is 13 now and every so often still gets that unhinged look in her eye. Both she and my parents' Pointer were one-person dogs. It was weird that for both their Alpha wasn't either of my parents. Maybe smell-based.
 

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