Lets talk about goats!

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I would go insane being slowly surrounded. One of my donkeys came from Nevada. Don't really have nothing to do with nothing. I checked my trusty goat books and they do mention alfalfa hay and pellets, so if it's working for you go with it, I'm not a personal fan, I don't think it should make up too much of the diet, but I'm not a goat God, I just know how my goats do on what I feed them, and how rich diets are not good for an animal that evolved to consume a poor diet. We all have to find what works for us, and I still think your goats look fine, they will fill out as they age.

 

[chickenewbee]

I fed my goats alfalfa. The grain I usually fed was COB meaning corn oats and barley. I would not use fermented feed for goats. The closest I have known anyone come to feeding fermented feed to goats was a lady who fed alfalfa cubes. Alfalfa cubes are a good feed for horses and cattle and they are often cheaper than baled hay and the quality is good. However the cubes are too big for goats and sheep. This woman would take the cubes, put them in a bucket and pour boiling water on them. Once it cooled she fed it to the goats. Worked great except you have to feed just what they will soon clean up. You do not want it to ferment because fermented alfalfa can cause bloat and all sorts of digestive upsets. I fed fermented mash to pigs, but I wouldn't feed it to anything else. You are just asking for trouble.

Okay. Maybe I can return the Chaffhaye. I would like to avoid GMO alfalfa and the chemicals associated with it. That's why I went that direction.

I bought alfalfa cubes for my goats, but they could not chew them, so I had to break them up and soak them for an hour or so before I fed them. That's why I went to pellets, but when I noticed a few of the pellets seemed to pass through unchanged I started soaking the pellets as well. You don't need to boil the water...cold water works just fine. They only get a pound at a time and eat it all in about ten minutes.

Unsweetened rolled oats and barley-corn is what I used to give my horses. How much grain did you give your goats, and did you grain them when they were not lactating?

 

[chickenewbee]

I would go insane being slowly surrounded. One of my donkeys came from Nevada. Don't really have nothing to do with nothing. I checked my trusty goat books and they do mention alfalfa hay and pellets, so if it's working for you go with it, I'm not a personal fan, I don't think it should make up too much of the diet, but I'm not a goat God, I just know how my goats do on what I feed them, and how rich diets are not good for an animal that evolved to consume a poor diet. We all have to find what works for us, and I still think your goats look fine, they will fill out as they age.

Yeah...I liked it better when I looked out and saw stars rather than street lights, but at least there is a green belt between my area and the houses, and I have plenty of trees to block the view.

And to provide snacks for the goats

I'm going to ruminate on all the information I have gotten here, and then decide what direction to go on the feed.

 

[cassie]

Cows get twisted stomach, milk fever, ketosis, to name a few that are caused by high protein diets in milk cows, it's done, yes, but it's not in the end a healthy diet for a pet, for a production animal that gets culled if it's not up to par is a different scenario than a pet goat. It would figure a Californian would try to tell a Wisconsinite the what what on dairy production, been out of it for almost twenty years, but still remember my business. And our DHIA testers just dropped off the measure tester things and left, came back the next day to pick them up.

For the record, I have personally seen all those things you mentioned, milk fever, displaced abomasums, etc. in cows that were on pasture. I've seen ketosis more in cows that come into heavy milk production right after freshening and for whatever reason they were not taking in enough feed and they drew on their bodies to maintain milk flow. Put their whole system out of whack.

I did visit some goat dairies in Wisconsin some years ago. It has been a while, but as I remember, some of the goat herds were fed grass hay and some were fed alfalfa and a few got both. Really good grass hay, cut young and put up right, can rival alfalfa in protein. Didn't have an opportunity to see any cow dairies although I would have liked to. The other thing I remember about Wisconsin, other than the fact it was beautiful, was the water pipes buried eight feet underground so they wouldn't freeze in winter.

It was quite a few years ago when I worked as a DHIA tester. I didn't drop anything off. I went to the dairy, set up the meters, recorded milk weights for each cow, and took samples for butterfat. I was there all through both milkings. Fortunately at that time, the dairies milked twice a day, not three times a day as many do now. It was long hours and hard work. I found it was possible to go to sleep between steps. The good thing about that job, other than the experience, was that it was a four day week and a three week month so there was time a body could recuperate. I would not trade what I learned doing that for anything, but I wouldn't take that job again no matter how much it paid.

You are right about pet goats not needing a high powered ration. Where I lived though, even the pet goats were fed primarily alfalfa because that is what was available, but they didn't get grain if their owners had any sense at all.

 

[cassie]

Okay. Maybe I can return the Chaffhaye. I would like to avoid GMO alfalfa and the chemicals associated with it. That's why I went that direction.

I bought alfalfa cubes for my goats, but they could not chew them, so I had to break them up and soak them for an hour or so before I fed them. That's why I went to pellets, but when I noticed a few of the pellets seemed to pass through unchanged I started soaking the pellets as well. You don't need to boil the water...cold water works just fine. They only get a pound at a time and eat it all in about ten minutes.

Unsweetened rolled oats and barley-corn is what I used to give my horses. How much grain did you give your goats, and did you grain them when they were not lactating?

I really don't remember exactly how much grain I fed. Each string had grain in front of them all the while they were being milked. If you have just a few goats and milk them individually, rule of thumb is one pound of grain for two pounds of milk. Goats that appear thin get more, chubby goats get less. I did not feed grain after I dried them off. About three weeks or so before they were due to freshen again I would start feeding some grain.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

See I keep thinking Wisconsin is the whole world, got to get my old lady brain thinking not everybody has access to the same type of feeds and forage, keep learning, never too old for that. We had tried three times a day milking, I think it lasted two weeks. The whole farming thing is around the clock work, don't miss it. Yeah everything I say is my personal opinion, not to be taken as law, just stating what I do and what I have read, I know nothing about running a goat dairy business, just feeding my 14 pets. And frost line here is 6 feet, so all water lines are below that.

 

[chickenewbee]

I really don't remember exactly how much grain I fed. Each string had grain in front of them all the while they were being milked. If you have just a few goats and milk them individually, rule of thumb is one pound of grain for two pounds of milk. Goats that appear thin get more, chubby goats get less. I did not feed grain after I dried them off. About three weeks or so before they were due to freshen again I would start feeding some grain.

Okay, thanks. I'll file that away for when my little girl is old enough to start producing.

Do you agree that the big pot belly on my boy is not a problem?

I am used to horses, and a big belly is an indication of poor nutrition or worms in horses.

 

[H Diamond]

Because a goat has a four chambered stomach designed to digest poor quality forage, rich forage like alfalfa and goat pellets will throw off the system causing either acidity, or overeaters disease, both are quick and deadly. A handful won't cause too much trouble, but it's best to avoid feeding them at all, plus your goats will scream every time they see you if you feed them grains, for treats I give mine tree branches like willow or Apple.

Fairly certain that's incorrect info. I just read a recent (small) study done about the nutrition content of growing weeds. Many of them were just as rich as alfalfa. The study was done in the Midwest. Here locally, we have a weed that grows here that when I it's younger stages, has a calcium content just as high as good alfalfa.
Let's also think about calcium needs for the lactating doe.
Last point for me, not all forages are created equal. The alfalfa I get here is poor quality, no where near close to what a dairy goat would need. You can't just make a blanket statement like alfalfa pellets would kill a goat. Ever looked at the nutrition information on the back of a bag of pellets? They all differ, but they aren't as rich as you might think.
Now if we're taking about urinary calculi in wethers, it's a different thing.

 

[H Diamond]

I have a question about one of my goats. They are both around six months (I don't know for sure how old they are, but under a year for sure.) When I got them they were both underweight, but the little girl seemed to be healthy and and just needed to gain a couple of pounds. The little boy was underweight, had a horrible ugly, dry coat that looked like a bad 80s shag rug, and had a very large gut. I wormed both of them (the boy twice) and they are getting grass hay, forage, alfalfa pellets, and goat pellets every day. They also have loose minerals. The little girl looks normal to me, now, and they both have nice coats, but the boy still has a large gut, and is sunken in on his flanks. You can see him from the side here: From above here: Here they are next to each other: These are my first goats. Am I worrying about nothing, or is this a problem? If it's a problem, then what can I do about it?

I realize you've had 900 comments after this, but I skimmed through and didn't see anyone mention a fecal. You really need to get a fecal done (you didn't mention if you had) prior to worming so you know which wormer to use. Not all wormers are designed to kill all parasites. You can send them in for $5 a sample to www.midamericaagresearch.com. They can also test for coccidiosis. That being said, I will agree, I don't see anything wrong from this angle. Also, is your boy a wether or intact male? If he still have his testicles, they need to be separated as your girl is probably too young to be bred.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Fairly certain that's incorrect info. I just read a recent (small) study done about the nutrition content of growing weeds. Many of them were just as rich as alfalfa. The study was done in the Midwest. Here locally, we have a weed that grows here that when I it's younger stages, has a calcium content just as high as good alfalfa.
Let's also think about calcium needs for the lactating doe.
Last point for me, not all forages are created equal. The alfalfa I get here is poor quality, no where near close to what a dairy goat would need. You can't just make a blanket statement like alfalfa pellets would kill a goat. Ever looked at the nutrition information on the back of a bag of pellets? They all differ, but they aren't as rich as you might think.
Now if we're taking about urinary calculi in wethers, it's a different thing.

goats are designed to eat things that requires them to chew their cuds, there was an article in the New hobby farm magazine that talked about how the act of cud chewing produces large amounts of saliva which helps keep the highly acidic stomach of the goat more neutral, pellets require no cud chewing, which is unhealthy for a ruminant, this is all in my own opinion, I've kept goats for 25 years, I have learned a thing or two.