Let's talk Cuckoo and WHITE marans... breeding strategies...

[fowlman01]

Here is a link to MATHACE's Marans DQ list. It is concerning Black Coppers but many of the physical faults can be all varieties. The post it is very informative.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/385769/marans-proposed-standards-for-reference-purposes

Although I feel these should be obvious faults to most breeders.

Cuckoos are different when it comes to white allowance in the hackles and tails. I believe Bev told me it is OK as long as it is no more than a 2 inch piece.

There are no APA Standards for the Cuckoo Marans, but when that is submitted to the APA , the Marans will have the same description as all others breeds of the Cuckoo color. The Marans club has not submitted a color description to the APA or a request to have them accepted into the SOP.

It will be the kiss of death if the Cuckoo's entered in an APA qualifying meet have white in the wings and tails...they will not be accepted.

Walt

 

[OHmamma]

I do not know when the proposal will be submitted. The plan is to adhere to the French Standard for cuckoo. It will be worded properly before submittal but there will not be any signifigant differences.

The 2in amount of white in the tail is also what I believe is acceptable for Blue Coppers. That really shocked me. I cull for any white in mine.

I agree there should be no white. I personally don't like it and wouldn't show or keep a roo with it myself. I like stong well colored cuckoo and from my experience breeding any variety the more "white" or color flaws you allow the more you end up with in further generations.

 

[fowlman01]

I do not know when the proposal will be submitted. The plan is to adhere to the French Standard for cuckoo. It will be worded properly before submittal but there will not be any signifigant differences.

The 2in amount of white in the tail is also what I believe is acceptable for Blue Coppers. That really shocked me. I cull for any white in mine.

I agree there should be no white. I personally don't like it and wouldn't show or keep a roo with it myself. I like stong well colored cuckoo and from my experience breeding any variety the more "white" or color flaws you allow the more you end up with in further generations.

The wording will have to be the same as the other accepted Cuckoo breeds. The APA does not adhere to any other countries Standard unless it just happens to be the same, which might be the case with Cuckoo...I don't know yet.

Cuckoo's will not be accepted by the APA if they have a lot of white in the tail and the wings. The birds submitted for the qualifying meet should not have white or they will fail the qualifying process. Bev should be aware of this and that problem should be solved BEFORE you try to have them qualified.

...how much white does the French Standard allow?

Walt

 

[OHmamma]

I suppose I need to make a few things clear.

I have shown 2 Lf Cuckoo twice so far this season and my 3 bantam cuckoo Marans 2 times as well. I too am confused as far as the exact coloring definition but so far all of my cuckoos shown have done well. I have been breeding cuckoo four years to my own liking, I like massive brightly colored roos with crispness and definition to their cuckoo pattern, I like my hens to be big and fat clearly cuckoo'd on top and stormy blue-grey on the bottom. I do not breed white into them, I have never used a roo or hen with white in it. I wouldn't enter a bird that has white in it.

I am not an APA rules expert nor do I claim to be. I can not control what is submitted by anyone to the APA. I am just a person that likes my Chickens that can show up at a show and pay the entry fee and present a healthy bird. If the judge likes them good for me if he/she doesn't I will happily take them home and continue to care for them like the pets they are. If Bev Davis liked me and my little cuckoo cockerel enough to ask me to help at the qualifying meet I am not going to say no. I like going to shows and meeting other breeders and exhibitors.

I am 100% confident that the Marans Club Officers are perfectly capable of writing and submitting a standard proposal the the APA. In the meantime, I will continue to keep breeding my flock as I have been. If I don't meet the "standard" that is no one's problem but my own.

With that being said, I also wonder about the French Standard as it only describes what is a Silver Cuckoo. With the cock being considerably lighter than the hen. Having almost no baring in the hackles. The English version is closer to what I have seen, bred for and like for myself. However they have clean legs as everyone knows so I do have this problem as I have 6 hens that are of Fugate lines in my flock of 14 hens and pullets. I am trying to correct this by mating them with well feather shanked roos. I have been successful with this with several other varieties so I do not believe it will be a problem.

I agree that this color differentiation or lack there of should be clarified before the meet planned for 12/13 Hopefully it will be. Yet once again, I am not in control of such matters. I can ask Bev or Dick to see if they can give me an idea.

French standard for "Silver" Cuckoo......I can't find anything about the amount of white permitted or if it is unacceptable.

Silver Cuckoo Marans

Color of Male and Female

Disqualifications:
Green or Coppery colored feathers.

Cock and Hen:
The Cock is much lighter in plumage then the hens. Hens are smaller and more compact with a darker plumage.

Comb, Face, Wattles and Earlobes: Bright Red.
Beak: Light horn shading to white at the tip.
Eyes: Reddish Bay.
Shanks and Toes: Pinkish White.
Plumage: All Sections of the body is covered with cuckoo plumage with black and white striping throughout with a rough pattern and irregular lines. Hackles are slightly lighter in shade. Hens are much darker with a bit more uniformity in the striping. Undercolor is grey.

English Standard for "Dark" Cuckoo...again no mention of white.

THE DARK CUCKOO
Male and female plumage: Cuckoo throughout, each feather marked across with bands of blue-black. A lighter shaded neck in both male and female, and also back in the male, is permissible if definitely banded. Cuckoo throughout is the ideal, as even as possible.

2013 Cock Hopeful

 

[flgardengirl]

I suppose I need to make a few things clear.

I have shown 2 Lf Cuckoo twice so far this season and my 3 bantam cuckoo Marans 2 times as well. I too am confused as far as the exact coloring definition but so far all of my cuckoos shown have done well. I have been breeding cuckoo four years to my own liking, I like massive brightly colored roos with crispness and definition to their cuckoo pattern, I like my hens to be big and fat clearly cuckoo'd on top and stormy blue-grey on the bottom. I do not breed white into them, I have never used a roo or hen with white in it. I wouldn't enter a bird that has white in it.

I am not an APA rules expert nor do I claim to be. I can not control what is submitted by anyone to the APA. I am just a person that likes my Chickens that can show up at a show and pay the entry fee and present a healthy bird. If the judge likes them good for me if he/she doesn't I will happily take them home and continue to care for them like the pets they are. If Bev Davis liked me and my little cuckoo cockerel enough to ask me to help at the qualifying meet I am not going to say no. I like going to shows and meeting other breeders and exhibitors.

I am 100% confident that the Marans Club Officers are perfectly capable of writing and submitting a standard proposal the the APA. In the meantime, I will continue to keep breeding my flock as I have been. If I don't meet the "standard" that is no one's problem but my own.

With that being said, I also wonder about the French Standard as it only describes what is a Silver Cuckoo. With the cock being considerably lighter than the hen. Having almost no baring in the hackles. The English version is closer to what I have seen, bred for and like for myself. However they have clean legs as everyone knows so I do have this problem as I have 6 hens that are of Fugate lines in my flock of 14 hens and pullets. I am trying to correct this by mating them with well feather shanked roos. I have been successful with this with several other varieties so I do not believe it will be a problem.

I agree that this color differentiation or lack there of should be clarified before the meet planned for 12/13 Hopefully it will be. Yet once again, I am not in control of such matters. I can ask Bev or Dick to see if they can give me an idea.

French standard for "Silver" Cuckoo......I can't find anything about the amount of white permitted or if it is unacceptable.

Silver Cuckoo Marans

Color of Male and Female

Disqualifications:
Green or Coppery colored feathers.

Cock and Hen:
The Cock is much lighter in plumage then the hens. Hens are smaller and more compact with a darker plumage.

Comb, Face, Wattles and Earlobes: Bright Red.
Beak: Light horn shading to white at the tip.
Eyes: Reddish Bay.
Shanks and Toes: Pinkish White.
Plumage: All Sections of the body is covered with cuckoo plumage with black and white striping throughout with a rough pattern and irregular lines. Hackles are slightly lighter in shade. Hens are much darker with a bit more uniformity in the striping. Undercolor is grey.

English Standard for "Dark" Cuckoo...again no mention of white.

THE DARK CUCKOO
Male and female plumage: Cuckoo throughout, each feather marked across with bands of blue-black. A lighter shaded neck in both male and female, and also back in the male, is permissible if definitely banded. Cuckoo throughout is the ideal, as even as possible.

2013 Cock Hopeful

Beautiful Baby!!

 

[OHmamma]

Beautiful Baby!!

Thanks He is very friendly too. He gets to ride on my shoulder at feeding time. I just love my little cuckoos! That is him with his Golden Cuckoo Friends.

 

[HenThymes]

Hey Everyone, it's been awhile since I've posted last. This seasons group has just been growing out, finally got their own pen yesterday away from the juvi group. I still find it amazing as to what all pops up from a gold cuckoo breeding. Out of my group I got gold cuckoo, gold salmon, black copper and a couple of regular cuckoo. I have kept back my double dose gold cockerels, my only gold cuckoo pullet & black copper pullet as well as all four of the gold salmon pullets. I will at a later date separate out the group for my all gold cuckoos, still not sure what to do with the gold salmons as I have no cockerel for them?? I am also surprised at how early this group has started to lay compared to the parent stock, just hope the eggs get as dark as what they were hatched from.

Thought I would share a couple of pictures, please excuse any missing tail feathers had a picker from the pen next door to the juvis.

Here is a picture of some of the pullet eggs, they seem to be getting darker and bigger everyday(cream eggs for comparison)

Egg color they were hatched from (sure hope they get this dark)

 

[OHmamma]

HENTHYMES ~~You should look for a silver birchen roo and make some silver salmons......That is interesting I didn't realize you could still get that many variations in them. What generation are your goldens?

Nice egg color too.

 

[HenThymes]

HENTHYMES ~~You should look for a silver birchen roo and make some silver salmons......That is interesting I didn't realize you could still get that many variations in them. What generation are your goldens?

Nice egg color too.

That I can track back this group is F4-F5. I owned the parent stock (rehomed last fall), I hatch from only the darkest and feather legged and would you believe still got non feathered and a menagerie of colors. I plan to put together my only gold cuckoo pullet with the best of the two gold cockerels I have later this spring and hatch some offspring and see what I get this round. All are French just not as nice or heavy of feathering as the parent stock was.

This is father to the group above


Hens

 

[OHmamma]

I only hatch from the darkest eggs and feather legged too but it does not seem to carry 100% on any of the varieties.

Did you use a Wheaten in your line? There was much debate about it on another thread. I always thought to use the Black Copper X Cuckoo. Wheaten would be nearly impossible to get to breed true if bred into GC. BUT if a peson unknowingly used a line of BCM that had wheaten hidden somewhere....... You never know what you will get. I had that problem last year. I spent most of the summer trying to figure out what I really had.

I noticed the crow wing is golden on your younger ones in the top, that was why I asked about the wheaten.