Let's talk Golden Cuckoo Marans!

[Chooks man]

I'm guessing that I will see more and more of this type as I'm selecting for lighter hackle color. This guy is late to show color, so usually that means light straw color hackling.

you absolutely correct . lighter you go worst will get as with a straw hackle on the BCM .

the barring ( cuckoo ) genes will dilute the Copper to red/Orange tone . and will turn the straw hackle to light Gold .

the Standard call for the Red/Orange colored hackle and shoulder on the GCM rooster ,coppery red Ears tufts . a rooster with this marking will give nicely colored hackle on the pullets.and well marked cockerels .

the rules of selecting a GCM and the BCM are the same except the extra barring ( cuckoo ) genes, that all ,the rest is absolutely identical ER/ER. s+/s+, MI/MI. Mh/Mh. Ar/Ar. b+/b+ for thr BCM and B/B for the GCM .

we apply the same thing on selecting the SCM ,has to be a same as a Birchen with extra B genes ..

chooks man

 

[morbius18]

you absolutely correct . lighter you go worst will get as with a straw hackle on the BCM .

the barring ( cuckoo ) genes will dilute the Copper to red/Orange tone . and will turn the straw hackle to light Gold .

the Standard call for the Red/Orange colored hackle and shoulder on the GCM rooster ,coppery red Ears tufts . a rooster with this marking will give nicely colored hackle on the pullets.and well marked cockerels .

the rules of selecting a GCM and the BCM are the same except the extra barring ( cuckoo ) genes, that all ,the rest is absolutely identical  ER/ER. s+/s+, MI/MI. Mh/Mh. Ar/Ar. b+/b+ for thr BCM and B/B for the GCM .

we apply the same thing on selecting the SCM ,has to be a same as a Birchen with extra B genes ..

chooks man

So are my F0 and F2 both incorrect color on the hackles?

 

[Chooks man]

this F2 cockerel of yours single barred has a proper colored hackle and shoulder .absolutely gorgeous .

I know you like the lighter colored hackle and you have been selecting for it , but you you keep doing it the gold get diluted by the barring with a time and become Yellow without a barring .

the Cuckoo gene B is tricky does work better when free from other parasitic genes or pattern gene like the lacing .

you seem to have a well colored pullets hackles but the double barred rooster are lighter . I m wondering if we are dealing with a sex linked parasitic related genes related to the double barring .

chooks man

 

[morbius18]

this F2 cockerel of yours single barred has a proper colored hackle and shoulder .absolutely gorgeous . I know you like the lighter colored hackle and you have been selecting for it , but you you keep doing it the gold get diluted by the barring with a time and become Yellow without a barring . the Cuckoo gene B is tricky does work better when free from other parasitic genes or pattern gene like the lacing . you seem to have a well colored pullets hackles but the double barred rooster are lighter . I m wondering if we are dealing with a sex linked parasitic related genes related to the double barring . chooks man

The F0 throws this color, the F1 father of that one throws the darker color as well. This is the father of the F2 lighter double barred as well as the one you posted a picture of. It seems like if it is a parasitic sex link gene, then getting a double dose of it from the double barring might dilute the color more.

 

[morbius18]

Is thus the correct hackle to go for?

 

[Chooks man]

Is thus the correct hackle to go for?

Ah le coucou a camail dore. the Golden cuckoo .
he is the right color ..the hackl can have 2 tone color ,darker at the top and lighter at bottom .
a shoulder must be darker Red/orange .

if you look at him you can see ,he is a Black copper with a extra barring gene ,a same body color pattern .a same red shoulders .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

The F0 throws this color, the F1 father of that one throws the darker color as well. This is the father of the F2 lighter double barred as well as the one you posted a picture of. It seems like if it is a parasitic sex link gene, then getting a double dose of it from the double barring might dilute the color more.

you correct my friend ,that what I m trying to understand , is the double barring causing this dilution ? or other parasitic genes .

usually from the F2 bred from F1 X f1 will give rise to a lot variation in the phenotype depend on how different the F0 where .from them if there is a healthy number you should be able to find a double barred cockerel with a proper coloration .

I have to find out what is causing this dilution ?

chooks man

 

[morbius18]

That picture also shows a single barred male. From breeding them, the single barred males do develop this coloration pattern.

Sire single barred, showing red shoulder:

Offspring, all siblings. Singles show same coloration as the French GCM picture:

Better pic of F2 double barred, showing darkening of shoulder. Cold be that he is just young and will get darker:

F0 does show a darker shoulder, just not red:

My question is, why does the French standard show a single barred male?

you correct my friend ,that what I m trying to understand , is the double barring causing this dilution ? or other parasitic genes .

usually from the F2 bred from F1 X f1 will give rise to a lot variation in the phenotype depend on how different the F0 where .from them if there is a healthy number you should be able to find a double barred cockerel with a proper coloration .

I have to find out what is causing this dilution ?

chooks man

 

[3riverschick]

you correct my friend ,that what I m trying to understand , is the double barring causing this dilution ? or other parasitic genes .

usually from the F2 bred from F1 X f1 will give rise to a lot variation in the phenotype depend on how different the F0 where .from them if there is a healthy number you should be able to find a double barred cockerel with a proper coloration .

I have to find out what is causing this dilution ?

chooks man

could it be the allele base? eWh instead of e+. There was a guy in (Maine, USA, I think) who had a hobby called "Hornpipe Marans". He had developed a strain of Golden Cuckoo Marans which were really golden. Lovely birds. Anyway, they were much lighter than the normal GCM. It was because they were eWh based instead of e+ based. In fact, as I remember these GCM actually were not hetero for eWh/e+. They actually carried 2 hits of eWh. Anyway, he eventually sold the strain to a major poultry breeder in a midwest USA State.This breeder got frustrated with thr project so he gave the project to his son. Son got frustrated withhow many Wheaten Marans the Hornpipe GCM were throwing and quit the project. From there, I don't know what happened to the birds. This was maybe 10 years ago?
Best,
karen
Best, Karen

 

[morbius18]

could it  be the allele base? eWh instead of e+.
Best, Karen

Mine are ER based. FO cock was posted above, F0 hen was a black copper marans. I should have had a homozygous EWh pop up. Unless that is what I'm seeing with the ones that seem to possess the lacing and weak barring. But as chicks they appeared ER penguin with brown faces. Didn't have any wheaten chick down patterns.

It could possibly be I'm seeing eb/eb. Either the F0 sire carries it or the F0 BCM hen did. I'm leaning to the father in this case. If it's the sire, than its possible the Eb might be affecting things.

Here is an ER/eWh that I experimented with. Crossed F0 GCM with a buff orpington.
Cock and pullet on this pic:

Hen in this pic:

Cock closeup:

The ER/eWh cock possessed really strong red shoulders. I wish that I had created more than 1 generation to see what a double barred one looks like.

After saying all that, there us a strong resemblance between the ER/eWh and this guy: