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LGD issues

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by mirandaleecon, Jul 15, 2016.

  1. mirandaleecon

    mirandaleecon Chillin' With My Peeps

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    We recently got an Anatolian Sheppard to help keep predators off our land. He is about 5 months old now and we've had him for about 3 months. He seems very intelligent but definitely not a 'people pleaser' like most dogs. He knows most of the basic stuff like 'come', 'sit', 'stay', and 'paw'. He will do all of these when he is in the mood.

    The biggest problem I am having with him is play/dominance biting. He will start by pushing on me with his shoulder and nipping at my calves, then it progresses to him jumping and biting at my chest/arms/face. He hasn't actually bitten me but he's already 50lbs at 5 mos and it's pretty scary.
    This happens on occasions when he hasn't gotten quite enough exercise but mostly when he is on the leash and I'm trying to direct him away from something he is interested in (like a rotting snake he found and wants to roll around in, ew).

    Things I've attempted to do in order to correct this;
    When he was a bit younger, I tried the 'say OW and play hurt' thing. He doesn't care.
    Dominance rolls-I can easily roll him on his side and he will lay there as long as my hand is on him. As soon as I step away he starts biting me again.
    Ignoring it-Works when it's at the calve nipping stage, does not work when he's jumping at me

    Any ideas what else I can do to get him to stop jumping at me? I would like to add that he's teething right now so it might be making him grumpy, will he outgrow the behavior?

    My second problem with him is eating chicks. He's gotten 3 since he's been with us, two were at the same time. He's actually pretty good about the chickens, he barely looks at the adults for the most part but the young ones must just look too fun. The first two he got because we got complacent with his supervision. Now he is always within our sites if he is off the leash. The last one he got because Mama hen brought the chick too close to where he is tied up. She must not have realized the danger because he normally will allow the hens to hang around with him.

    I'm not as concerned with him getting a couple chicks because I know he is still a puppy and it happens. I do want to try to do what I can to keep it from happening again. Any ideas on what I can do to train him to leave chicks alone specifically? I have introduced him to them and he doesn't seem to care when they are in my hands. I can't really put them down around him because he could squash them with his giant paws in a second or the chick would just run away. Also, if there's a mama hen, she probably wouldn't appreciate it too much. I was hoping the hens would teach him but most of them are terrible mothers and would abandon their chicks in a heartbeat. The one mother hen I have that would fight him hasn't had chicks since he's been around....
     
  2. cassie

    cassie Overrun With Chickens

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    First of all, see if you can find a book on LGD's. I know there are some around. Try looking in a sheep magazine or contact the Mid Atlantic States Komondor Club. I used to get their newsletter and there were helpful LGD tips therein and some books mentioned. The Komondoe Club of America muight be able to help, too. LGD's are slow to mature and they are independent thinkers. I never had trouble with my Koms play biting, but they did go through a stage when they would grab my hand and hold it. They were always very gentle. They also went through a stage where they would carry things and pack them off. Things like a chain saw, the newspaper, a five gallon bucket half full of milk, the neighbor's toy poodle, and anything else that they could grab and that appealed to them at the time. As for eating chicks, are you sure he is getting enough to eat? I fed my Koms free choice. One reason I did this was to prevent bloat. As for the play biting, you might try carrying a spray bottle with water.
     
  3. mirandaleecon

    mirandaleecon Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Panama City, FL
    Thank you for the response! I guess 'eating chicks' is bad phrasing. He doesn't actually eat them. I haven't been around when he does it so I can't say exactly what he does but my boyfriend says that he was 'just kind of slobbering on them'. He definitely gets plenty to eat. We don't free feed him but several times a day we will give him a scoop of food and if he eats it, he gets another until he won't eat it anymore. We can't leave food out or the chickens/ants get to it within 20 minutes.
     
  4. Donna R Raybon

    Donna R Raybon Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Keep a lead on him and yank sharp with 'NO!'
    Bite his ear tip until he squalls. This is what momma dog does to discipline pup. When he squalls, release ear and 'NO!'
    Keep a bucket of plastic pop bottles handy. Each bottle should be weighted with three or four gravel, lid on tightly. Dog misbehaves and you hurl a bottle sharply at dog. Bottle makes a noise due to gravel, but won't hurt dog, even at close range. Again a loud 'NO!'

    Where is dog's breeder? This is THEIR JOB to help you train pup! A puppy mill churns out puppies with zero support!

    I bred GPs for twenty years and helped a lot of people who bought my pups. Still have LGD but don't breed anymore. Also had BC and did sheep trials.

    An Anatolian needs a lot of room to run. If you only have a couple acres you are going to need lots of exercise. Again, talk to breeder!
     
  5. Cowgirl71

    Cowgirl71 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Anatolians as a breed generally need a very firm handler. Males more so than females. Without proper disciplining, the dog will easily see itself as the alpha of the pack. As the alpha, he makes the decisions, and does what he wants to do. It sounds as though your pup needs some serious correction. You need to make it clear to him that you're the alpha dog, before he gets any bigger. If there's anything you tell him to do or not to do, you need to enforce it. Which is easier said than done, I know....

    You need to act confident, like a leader. Animals main mode of conversing is body language. If you tell him "No", but your tone and/or body language says "I'm nervous/scared of you," then he'll ignore you. If it were me, I'd smack him really good on the muzzle if he were nipping me. If he continues, smack him again, harder. Don't be shy. Make it hurt. That's the whole idea. That is how an alpha communicates with a lower insubordinate animal who doesn't respond to gentler correction. And when he jumps up on you, knee him in the belly. If he does it again, knee him harder. If he is too close to you, knee him in the side. A smack with your hand indicates he did something naughty, it is interpreted as correction. Kneeing him or elbowing him is seen more casual, but firm, as in "get away, this is my space." It may take several times of doing this, even dozens, but if you're consistent he will figure out the pattern. And of course, if he's being good, reward him, with petting, kind words, and/or treats. But do not be nice to him if he's misbehaving.

    And of course, be careful. I haven't seen or met the pup, but your description comes across as a playful pup who believes he is or is on the way to being the alpha. But if you see any signs of real aggression, stop. It's not worth the risk. Start over with a different dog.

    Also, Anatolians are a high-energy LGD breed. They were the breed chosen to protect flocks in Africa from wild cheetahs, and are doing an excellent job. Pyrenees for example are lower energy, more docile, and mostly stay with their animals. Anatolians are a perimeter LGD, constantly on the move checking the perimeter. Part of the challenges with your pup likely stem from him being chained up. He's probably bored and not getting enough exercise. Anatolians need lots of space to run and roam, they're one of the worst breeds to keep chained up.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. rIrs roost

    rIrs roost Sir Crows A lot Premium Member

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    @Mutt Farmif she comes on soon she is a trainer. I know she can help.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
  7. Weehopper

    Weehopper Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Glad I read this. My dogs are getting older, and I have started thinking about replacement dogs. The Anatolian was one of the breeds I was considering. It is now off my list. [​IMG] I'm only on 21/2 acres. Don't need such a high energy dog.. Thanks.
     
  8. Cowgirl71

    Cowgirl71 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    You're very welcome. I would definitely suggest researching the different breeds and their characteristics and personalities before purchasing a pup. They do vary quite a lot, some will be better suited for what you are wanting in an LGD than others.

    Quite honestly, Anatolians are generally "too much dog" for most hobby farms. If the main threat to your flock/herd is coyotes and the occasional typical domestic dog, a pair of Pyrenees are effective guardians. They are excellent guardians, and very caring to their charges. They generally bark away any predators, and their large size helps them appear more intimidating than they really are. Rarely do they have to resort to lethal control. They are very sweet and submissive with people. They are less active and are an excellent choice for smaller acreages. They are currently handsdown the most common/popular LGD breed in the U.S., which is not a coincidence. I'm not saying they are the best LGD breed, but they are certainly one of the very best choices for someone with a hobby farm, particularly someone who also has small children.

    The next most common breed of LGD is the Anatolian (or at least they are definitely the next most common here in Missouri). If your predator threat is more extreme, such as wolves or cougars or bears, or even the 2-legged variety, and you have more land and have a firm confident personality, several Anatolians would make excellent effective additions to your flock/herd and property. They are definitely the better choice against a more severe predator threat. They are more aggressive, and physically better able to defend themselves against the larger more serious predators. While the Pyrenees prefer to bark threats away, Anatolians generally prefer a more lethal method. Both are LGD breeds, but they are each very different in both personality and guardian method.
     
  9. Chickerdoodle13

    Chickerdoodle13 The truth is out there...

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    Please research dominance methods thoroughly before deciding to use them. There is lots of evidence to show that these dated methods of training can do more harm than good. I've personally seen induced aggression through these methods. Part of the problem is that dogs do not exist in "packs" like people seem to think. The other issue is that most people cannot understand dog behavior enough to train properly.

    My first and best advice is to find a trainer that uses positive reinforcement. If sounds like in your case clicker training may be a benefit. Click for calm is an amazing method and I've seen people do amazing things with that. It does take a bit of work to get a dog trained to a clicker but there are tons of people that do videos to show you how to load the clicker. I also recommend Zak George videos for training. He is amazing and his methods really do work (these are the methods that are taught in veterinary behavior classes).

    Things like throwing bottles or biting a dog (I've heard people tell me they do this and it still never ceases to amaze me that this is something people do) can instill fear and anxiety into a dog. Research shows that dogs do not view us as pack members but as beings distinctly different from themselves. Therefore, relying on punishment as a sole source of training only breaks down the trust. There is a time and place for punishment but it should NOT be the sole training method.

    It is difficult to get training advice from forums though. You will gets lots of different opinions, many of which are conflicting. What I ask of people is just to do the research and speak with someone who knows dog behavior in person so they can evaluate your dog and tailor a training program that is right for both of you. It is much easier to train right the first time than to undue poor training.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
    2 people like this.
  10. Chickerdoodle13

    Chickerdoodle13 The truth is out there...

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    These are incredibly dangerous training methods and made me cringe to read them. This is a prime example of how to induce aggression in a dog. You either get aggression or a state of helplessness that looks "good behavior". You can't beat an animal and ask for its trust.

    If a trainer talks to you about "dominance", run far away.
     
    1 person likes this.

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