LGD love!

[rainbowhatchery]

yes the kangals tend to be more I guess I would use the word violent with predators. Pyrenees tend to bark and chase them off where as kangal dogs will kill intruders. Both will do it but kangals do tend to be more aggressive in that aspect and they are bigger, stronger and faster. Pyrenees are great dogs dont think Im bashing them but they cant compete with kangals against larger predators. Kangals also make better home/farm protectors against people as well which is why we use them also. Im in law enforcement and like my home security and my dogs would tear into a strange person that came over the fence just as fast as they would a coyote, but thats because I have socialized them that way too.

 

[OnlyOrps]

yes the kangals tend to be more I guess I would use the word violent with predators.  Pyrenees tend to bark and chase them off where as kangal dogs will kill intruders.  Both will do it but kangals do tend to be more aggressive in that aspect and they are bigger, stronger and faster.  Pyrenees are great dogs dont think Im bashing them but they cant compete with kangals against larger predators.  Kangals also make better home/farm protectors against people as well which is why we use them also.  Im in law enforcement and like my home security and my dogs would tear into a strange person that came over the fence just as fast as they would a coyote, but thats because I have socialized them that way too.  

Thanks for the info. We are way out in farming country. Not many human predators but the pigs bother me. My pyrs can handle coyotes but I don't know about those hogs. I've heard they are pretty nasty. We have 20+ acres. Is that enough for a kangals to patrol or will they want more? Will they work with and bond with my existing dogs or need to be seperated? Thanks for the info! I love to learn about new breeds.

 

[rainbowhatchery]

kangals do not need much room at all actually, they are lay around and watchers and roam whatever the perimeter is. We actually have our hatchery fenced in and its only 3 acres and we have 3 dogs in that area. Kangals are not roamers as much as what I have heard about pyrenees, kangals like their livestock to be in sight all the time. As for seperated that can be a problem. Kangals are VERY dominant and not every case but very often you can not keep two intact male or females together of the same sex. Two intact males or two intact females will often get in very nasty and dangerous violent fights. Not like a normal dog fight but like a wolf on the discovery channel, blood and ripping fights. We just got one of our males fixed and sadly did not notice a female coming into heat and since the one male had just recently been fixed he still have some manly ways left in him and it led to a fight. We now have one male on antibotics and pain meds from his leg and shoulder being ripped apart by an older male. It took 2 rounds from a 12 guage to get them apart fired right next to them. They are definitely not a breed for beginners. Dont let me scare you off they are amazing at their job but you cant really have a dog with that type of fight and aggression to get the job done against wolves, bears ect...... and not have some negative side effects you have to watch for. That is probably the worst side effect I would say is their dominant dog aggression against other non fixed dogs of the same breed. Now they may not show that to a pyrenees who would back right down to them but another intact kangal wont back down usually so thats the issue. We have 2 other non LGD breeds and they just back down so its not a problem, its that battle for dominance. Picture putting 2 mature roosters of a dominant aggressive breed in a coop together with some hens, thats two kangal males lol.

 

[TeaChick]

Subscribed. =)

 

[TeaChick]

All the dogs are so beautiful (even the ones covered in mud; they look like they've really had a fun day)!

I'm subscribed thanks to @OnlyOrps , BTW.

We have dogs (although, one of them is useless when it comes to property protections, but she's a female, so it stands to reason).
But If I had a LGD that could sleep in the coops with the chickens and free range with them, then I wouldn't have to worry so much about the chickens getting stolen during the night. My coops are secure, but more than once, I've forgotten to close one or both of them. Thankfully, only once, did that result in losses, but I lost two hens in one night. =( Also, I've lost two during the day; one when we were gone, but one when I was less than a hundred yards away talking on the phone!!!

So, I feel like, if there was a dog I could trust a. not to eat my chickens, and b. not to leave the yard (at least not w/o the chickens or maybe, if I could expect the bonus of the dog keeping the chickens on the property), then the chickens would be safer. KWIM?

Am I crazy? or should I be looking for a LGD or two?
(I'm given to understand that the LGD needs to grow up with the chickens in order to be effective at his/her job, so I guess that would mean LGD pups.)
Anyway, what do I need to know?

 

[rainbowhatchery]

I think most people with farms have dogs, so why not make that dog an LGD so it can actually have a purpose and use for you. Just be VERY careful because much of the advice you will get from LGD people is related to goats and sheep ect.... The dogs were bred to protect goat/sheep flocks, not poultry. That being said if you raise them right and get the right lines of dog they are very effective with poultry as well because the have the right personality traits for the job. I am a poultry hatchery and I breed Turkish kangal dogs making my knowledge on the subject a bit different than other because we are a poultry farm, not a goat/sheep farm and I breed the dogs for that purpose. Some advice people will give you when raising them does not relate to raising them for poultry. Part of the wanders of the the LGD dogs are how they bond with their goats and sheep, they do not bond with poultry, they allow and accept it but they do not bond with it so you have to raise them differently. They protect goats because they love their goats, they protect poultry because you raise them to be territorial of their farm and thus they just simply wont let anything else on the farm if that makes sense.

 

[OnlyOrps]

All the dogs are so beautiful (even the ones covered in mud; they look like they've really had a fun day)!

I'm subscribed thanks to @OnlyOrps
, BTW.

We have dogs (although, one of them is useless when it comes to property protections, but she's a female, so it stands to reason).
But If I had a LGD that could sleep in the coops with the chickens and free range with them, then I wouldn't have to worry so much about the chickens getting stolen during the night.  My coops are secure, but more than once, I've forgotten to close one or both of them.  Thankfully, only once, did that result in losses, but I lost two hens in one night. =(  Also, I've lost two during the day; one when we were gone, but one when I was less than a hundred yards away talking on the phone!!!   So, I feel like, if there was a dog I could trust a. not to eat my chickens, and b. not to leave the yard (at least not w/o the chickens or maybe, if I could expect the bonus of the dog keeping the chickens on the property), then the chickens would be safer.  KWIM?

Am I crazy? or should I be looking for a LGD or two?
(I'm given to understand that the LGD needs to grow up with the chickens in order to be effective at his/her job, so I guess that would mean LGD pups.)
Anyway, what do I need to know?

I always suggest beginner/first time lgd owners find a reputable breeder and get on a list for a started lgd. 8 months or older and we'll established on birds/fowl. It is more expensive hut well worth it. I ruined my first few lgds because I wanted to raise them like pet pups. If you can't afford a started dog then get a puppy and start it out in with huge birds if you csn. Geese, turkeys, roosters or broody hens. If they learn early that the birds can and will defend themselves it will help you in the long run!
Constant supervision is required with a pup since you won't have an already trained lgd to correct poor behavior. Play behavior is often the main issue. The pup will seek to bond with the birds and one way a pup likes to bond is through play. If you can afford two lgd pups this is often less of an issue as they can be redirected to play with one another. Get a game camera or long range baby monitor if you can so you can peek at the puppy pen regularly to catch any rough housing with birds and nip it in the bud... regular trips out to check in person and taking time to sit and relax as the birds free range will teach the pups by example that laying around and guarding is satisfying to their instincts. be sure to find experienced lgd owners so you can ask questions as they arise and be prepared for issues to pop up. It's often discouraging but in the long run you will be so pleased with the results. You will have a great lgd for years to come and will likely never see a loss to predation ever again. You will have a dog that can train every pup you bring in and will not have to be the mentor 100% ever again. It's truly the gift that keeps giving!

 

[rainbowhatchery]

I can agree in part with Only Orps as it is VERY different raising LGD dogs. We have bred and raised them for a long time and it is definitely much different than just raising a pet. The only thing I would caution with that is they are guard dogs. I personally would never own or purchase an older LGD for that reason. Not trying to deter someone as Only Orps is very right that it is beneficial in many many ways. For me though my dogs double as livestock and farm/property guardians. I know what they are capable of in attack mode against human intruders just as much as predator intruders depending on how they are raised. I just personally would never trust a guard dog breed of any kind that I did not raise from a puppy myself and know exactly how it was socialized. If you do go the adult dog route as was said do your research and only do so from a very reputable well known breeder with lots of recommendations so you can have the best chance of knowing how it was raised before you bring an animal that litterally has the ability to kill you onto your farm. I have heard of wonderful stories as well as horror stories where an adult LGD bonded with the livestock before the new human owners because the dog did not know them so basically was protecting their goats from strange people it did not know, that could be a very dangerous situation.

 

[OnlyOrps]

I am a Pyreneese person and am speaking from experience with them. I have purchased and rescued 20+ grown pyrs and put them with my stock. One of them came to us because he was human aggressive. The only Pyr I've ever rehabbed for that reason. It took months of me going toe to toe with him to get him straightened out. He turned out to be a wonderful lgd and guard dog once he learned not to turn on his care takers. Pyrs are not usually a very human aggressive breed and go more the route of intimidation when it comes to deterring trespassing humans. I can certainly see where buying a started dog of the more human aggressive breeds could be of great concern. Thanks for pointing that out and giving me the opportunity to explain where my experience lies as to avoid somebody going out and trying to buy a grown kangal or Anatolian or other more human weary breed. As for pyrenees I don't think it would be a problem. The one time I encountered a human aggressive Pyr I knew what I was getting into, I was rehabbing him and they were honest about his issues. In the 15+ yrs I've devoted to pyrenees I can honestly say human aggression is not a common issue the breed has. a reputable breeder will also not place a pup they feel might have trouble adjusting so as long as they find a good breeder with good references I think they will be fine either way!

 

[rainbowhatchery]

Yes you make some great points and that is what I mean by if someone is going to get an adult it can be very beneficial however they need to do it through someone like you who knows what they are doing and what kind of dog they are placing. We breed Kangals and being in law enforcement as I am I tend to go overboard with home security and our farm and property is securely fenced, looks like a compound lol and the dogs are not socialized with strangers at all. They dont see a strange person any different then a coyote. As you pointed out though we purposely raise a more human aggressive version of LGD for that reason because we use them as dual purpose guardians. We are actually getting our first Ovcharka LGD puppy this year. I would never ever be able to safely place one of our adults in another home. The sad part is that there are thiefs and liars out there who may take advantage of a first time buyer and put a dog like mine in a strange home so to re solidify what was already said if you go with an adult do so through someone like Only Orps and dont just buy the first good deal that comes your way.