LGD Wants Inside the home Constantly

[Spanishchick]

I'm not the voice of dog wisdom but id have an issue with my dog if he barked at me in a serious way.....he's never barked at me. Id be on him like a cowgirl on a wild horse and pin him to the ground. I have a malinios and I would hope he's smarter than to threaten me. I have been removing his food from under his nose since I got him.....in the middle of eating. He's by nature alfa but I am the master.
He's not guarding my flock but he does guard my family.
Is it different for livestock guardians?
As soon as the coup is enlarged they will be sleeping outside of it every night to catch night preditors whike still having access to the house.
Having said that he's smart brings me to the shock collar issue which I put on my dog to contain him in the yard so he doesn't eat people. My dog who received his first shock at 6 months doesn't ever want another one. This is a police officers dream dog. Not a wus, also the israeli armys official work dog. I would not use shock to train. I believe that you will get the opossite of what you want from him. What it does is scare them, makes them freeze and if this is an example, at 6 months after his first low voltage shock my Lucious crawled in a corner for 2 days not even wanting to pee. I had to work with him for three days......carrying him outside and lifting his moral to let him know that he was not going to be subjected to a life of shock therapy every time he moved.
A yr later his behavior when on the collar is much more contained than when off the collar. (He gets free play for 2 hours every night with me a ball, sticks, his new mate Pulo who's a little jack russel terrier). I remove it at that time incase he jumps the boundary in a moment of exitement chasing the ball and to walk him. It also gets removed when going for a ride because the car has to cross the wire.
Having said that I'll add that Pulo won't be wearing the collar until he's 6 months old because it would be a huge mistake and very confusing for a pup that young.
Sonya what kind of dog is that? From that angle he looks like mine.

 

[Spanishchick]

I also don't consider work dog breeds mature until 2. There is a huge change in them between 11/2 years to 2 that is for me a pleasure to see. It was the perfect time to introduce a pup for him since he's doing most of the training for me.

 

[Spanishchick]

Sorry to post again but I keep remembering things. Hitting a dog on the nose is very humiliating. I wouldnt humiliate my dog. Seriously try rolled news paper and wack it near the dog. Also use your boot to stomp the ground, my mucks were great for that. Don't pull too hard on the inch chains or you can puncture the dog. Chockers can also break the trachea if pulled hard.
A dog is serious work.

 

[Sonya9]

He's by nature alfa but I am the master.
He's not guarding my flock but he does guard my family.
Is it different for livestock guardians?

Sonya what kind of dog is that? From that angle he looks like mine.

Yes it is different with LGD's. They were NOT bred to work "with" people they were bred to guard livestock on their own for extended periods of time without human guidance. When they bond with people we become their "livestock", they bond much quicker to people because we are more fun than sheep and chickens. If they sense a threat they don't listen to their humans at all, sheep don't tell them what to do when the wolves show up, they decide on their own how to protect the flock. They were selectively bred for independence and the ability to think on their own.

They have their own very strong "personal boundaries". Those boundaries include their food, their chewies, their sheep/flock, house, people, etc...

That is why I am encouraging my boy to be around the chicks. He won't guard the chicks because I tell him too, but if he feels a sense of ownership and bonding with the chicks, if he thinks of them as HIS chicks, then he will protect them as fiercely as he protects me (or his chewie) against all threats.

LGDs aren't for everyone, they are often very hard core dogs depending on the type, extremely loyal and incredibly intelligent and affectionate; if my boy says there is a problem I assume he is right. He is smarter than I am when it comes to those things. I hope they never become popular and ruined to make them more "submissive and manageable" as household pets, they are magnificent and extremely bright canines.

Mine is an Anatolian Shepherd, a Turkish livestock guardian sometimes referred to as a Kangal.

 

[aart]

An LGD should still be able to be ultimately controlled and handled at will by their people, which includes taking something away that the dog is eating.
You can have such control over the dog and still have the dog be able to preform it's function as a guardian.

 

[Sonya9]

An LGD should still be able to be ultimately controlled and handled at will by their people, which includes taking something away that the dog is eating.
You can have such control over the dog and still have the dog be able to preform it's function as a guardian.

Not sure what type of LGDs you have had but a strong alpha LGD will put you in your place if you try to take their food. Anyone that brags about being able to dominate their livestock guardian dog shouldn't own or breed LGDs imo. That would equate to destroying the fine qualities of those breeds.

 

[Spanishchick]

These are just my thoughts. I can't have an aggressive dog I can't trust. I'll shoot the thing. And I love my dog. I don't see why the dog cannot respect you and care for the animals but I do know on my father in laws ranch the dogs can be problematic. They first of all won't stop sucking goat milk unless my fil seperates them for a while. Its a cattle ranch so there's not a lot of time for needless annoyances. But my fil commands the dogs. And they guard cattle, not sure if there's a difference. There's chickens loose everywhere and horses and mules etc.
I think cattle ranchers will live longer than most people because they work so hard.
Anyhow, one year the story goes that three of his dogs, all fed goat milk even as adults became wild. They ran off the ranch and started killing cattle, other ranchers cattle too. Needless to say the cowboys were on horseback to hunt them down and they all got shot by my fil. But not before causing a disaster for almost an entire summer. And this is the old fashioned cattle rancher type man. Also needless to say he had to settle some cows and thankfully his neighbors are all family! Id have to ask him what he thinks went wrong with those three and I will when I go back to Mexico because now I'm curious. They don't have phones, the ranchers don't want the lines crossing their properties. I think it keeps drug lords away to be honest but anyways.

And btw a belgian malinios is a sheep dog. Most work for the police and military, similar to the german sheppard but they are a difficult dog and still used to herd sheep, still the same darn headstrong and active predatory dog Sheep or people. also, at least with cattle, the dogs are brought indoors daily (warm barn or home) to rest and sleep while the humans also rest leaving the cattle to the wild for a while. You win some you loose some, but you will always loose some.

 

[Spanishchick]

I got the reason they went wild from my DJ. When he took them off the goats it was spring and the cows were pregnant so they began to suckle the cows Missing the milk from the goats. The how's gave birth, the dogs ate the afterbirth, the cows then refused the dogs. Cows funny enough won't let just any one nurse. The dogs had the taste for beef and went on a killing rampage. At first they thought it was coyotes but they eventually found out it was the dogs. They can take down a cow which shows you how dangerous a dog can be. The cows were out to pasture at that point....spring means pasture time so they can grow alfalfa on the other land. When they're at pasture over there it's all the ranchers who are in an association and for the most part related sharing the land and water.
They went on horseback to find the dogs but it wasn't so easy. They eventually got caught and my fil shot one and two other ranchers shot the other two.
His sons were hunting them to. Thousands of dollars in loses later those three dogs were dead. But so were a few cows and some calf.
My husband refused to give our dogs eggs. Now I know why!

 

[Spanishchick]

I did some reading and I hear your point on how the Anatolian is independent. However I've been to the county side in Turkey and we're not that rugged. Trust me on that one. Here is something good to read. She's doing it maybe you can write her http://www.anatoliandog.org/poultry.htm

 

[Sonya9]

These are just my thoughts. I can't have an aggressive dog I can't trust. I'll shoot the thing. And I love my dog. I don't see why the dog cannot respect you and care for the animals but I do know on my father in laws ranch the dogs can be problematic.

Not sure why you think he does not respect me. I trust him completely, he is the most devoted and predictable canine I have ever had. He has a great deal of respect for me, my food, my safety, etc... Of my six dogs (others are various breeds, all rescues) he is the most gentle and courteous. He is funny, sweet, loving, and also very mellow most of the time unlike many other working type dogs, he happily lounges around the house instead of always getting into stuff. He simply wants a bit of respect in return and I am fine with that. If he has something and I want to take it away from him I don't start a battle and try to "steal" his stuff using force, that would cause more and more conflict and destroy our excellent relationship. I simply trade something in exchange and we are both happy.

The other night he came prancing in the house with a bird feeder (it had fallen during a storm), he was very pleased and proud of his found prize and he settled on his dog bed to check it out (and try to eat the birdseed inside it...I wasn't sure that would be healthy). I simply said "Gabe....wanna trade?" and went to the fridge, he knows exactly what that means and stared at me to see what the trade was...I pulled out a slice of ham and he quickly decided that was a VERY good trade so I got the bird feeder, he got a treat, and we were both happy. A very experienced old time Anatolian breeder told me that trick and it works perfectly every time.

Some folks would NOT be a good match for an Anatolian, that is why folks need to learn about breeds before they get them. If people educated themselves our shelters would not be overflowing with abandoned dogs and millions wouldn't be killed every year. All dogs are NOT the same especially the LGD breeds. Anatolians are prized by many livestock people because they have not been "softened" like many of the European LGDs in particular when it comes to guarding against domestic dogs. If Anatolians start being bred to be "more agreeable and docile house dogs" that means the strongest will be culled and the breed as a whole will be weakened. Turkey may not have a lot of serious predators anymore BUT it is a Muslim country, for over a thousand years they have kept these dogs as flock protectors and guards, they did NOT breed them as house companions. Most of the breeding was actually natural selection as the strongest dogs survived with little human help and their genes were the ones that passed on.

Here is a short video of my boy getting used to the new chicks. He was raised as a working dog but I made him a companion house dog 4 years ago so he will always be focused on me and the house primarily, he is going weak-kneed for those chicks though! He really never uses calming signals with other animals (they can use them with him and they do). He will use them with me if I am annoyed with him (licking his lips, averting his gaze, yawning to let me know he doesn't want to fight) but seeing him gush over these chicks and flood them with calming signals is adorable! He won't obsess and protect them 24 hours a day but I expect he will keep an eye on them at night and definitely get involved if he hears any upset chickens or disturbances.