little sand, lotsa sand and what if it fails?

[Dhkoenig]

Hi Guys - I decided to bite the bullet and I am going to put sand in my big dirt run. We have two covered runs that are attached by a chicken door. The original run is 10x16 and has a slanted corrugated plastic roof and has one side with corrugated plastic and then another little panel that is also covered but two walls are completely open with just hardware cloth. The second and newer part is 10x12 and has a slanted shingled roof but no siding other than hardware cloth on 3 sides (the side that adjoins them is covered)

So.....I have done plain dirt and I am a daily scooper and it has been fine but three of my new pullets have feathered feet so I think the dirt (esp when wet from rain) will be bad. I tried chopped straw as an experiment and also shavings but when they get wet it is worse than dirt because when shavings get wet and combine with any kicked up droppings etc it is just a cesspool of illness waiting to happen even if I scoop every day (which I do with OCD fervor) So..... I decided Sand would be great but I only ordered 1 cubic yard which doesn't achieve the 3-4 inches of sand that everyone says you should do.

What is holding me back from doing the entire 4 inches in both runs is....at least with the straw and hay, when things didn't go as planned I could rake it all out and use it as mulch and go back to the dirt run. If that happens with sand, UGH cannot imagine how heavy it would be to try to get that out. If it didn't end up being a good option, could I just put top soil over it and use the sand as drainage under the topsoil?

I am not sure if I should start off with just like an inch in both runs instead of 3-4 inches to see if it is good so I don't get stuck having to get rid of tonnage of sand or if I should just go all in and do it the way everyone says 3-4 inches and if it ends up not being great, with rain or whatever, I can just clean it up and pour a ton of top soil over it.

Thoughts?

 

[NatJ]

I am not sure if I should start off with just like an inch in both runs instead of 3-4 inches to see if it is good so I don't get stuck having to get rid of tonnage of sand or if I should just go all in and do it the way everyone says 3-4 inches and if it ends up not being great, with rain or whatever, I can just clean it up and pour a ton of top soil over it.

I would put the sand in one run first, and see if you like it that way. That lets it be deeper than spreading it in two places, so you get a better test for the same amount of sand.

 

[Dhkoenig]

UPDATE:

The sand was really fine. I took NatJ's advice and only put it on one side. The side where the little girls were. For that purpose it was really great because the little ones poop like little popcorn makers! It is constant! So that gave me two things 1) begin glad I had the sand in there so I could see them all and get them and 2) the ability to scoop out what was not visible below the surface. It was great for that purpose but then I started getting worried because all of that poop, daily, started to become part of the sand. Even me scooping every single poop every single day there are parts that just incorporated in with the grains of sand and as time went bye I started feeling like the sand was probably starting to have a bit of a high concentration of tiny bits of poop mixed in. I got grossed out and took it all out. The other downside of the sand is that there were a couple of days of really hard rain in a row and both runs got fairly wet. The sand side smelled way worse than the dirt side.

While I KNOW that this same thing is true of the dirt floor, as much as I shovel, I am bound to miss part of one or miss one completely, in my mind (I have not been able to find any evidence to back this up) I feel like whatever I miss will biodegrade better once I turn over all the soil. Also Sand is not compostable and we recently decided we want to give composting a try, so I decided to go forward with dirt. Removing the sand from the one run was a couple of days of hard work. I had to shovel the sand into buckets that I could lift, then dump those into a wheelbarrow, then once I get a few bucketloads into the wheelbarrow, take that across our property to a spot where I could dump and spread it.

This was one take-away. If you are easily grossed out like me, after a while of having the sand there (or dirt, or whatever) I like to change it over from time to time with fresh, and hauling out dirt is a lot easier. 1) it is not as heavy 2) it is dirt! So you can put it basically anywhere in addition to the composter.

SO...in conclusion...I think sand is definitely a viable and great material for a covered run. In the beginning, the sand was wonderful! I kept thinking "why in the world would anyone use anything else?!?!" but that was before it started to get bit by bit less pure and untainted, and then I started not loving it, so our ultimate decision was to go back to dirt. This time (compared to times in the past) Every day after I scoop (or as I scoop) I use a shovel to turn over the dirt and smash it up good with the shovel/rake so it doesn't get compacted.

Hope this is helpful to someone else out there!

 

[linguini]

We settled with sand in the run and have been very happy with it - the run never got wet or muddy like before. I've only refilled the sand a couple times. I also throw yard wastes to the run which they love! No smell with plenty ventilation. The only gross part is their poop on the wood frame and the perches which I power wash every few months. The run so far is practically maintenance free!

 

[Kelster65]

Kinda worried now, but at least the pad we prepped with sand is fairly small. It’s where we plan to park the coop for the winter, which around here is half the year. I guess if it gets stinky, I could put mulch over it. When I chose it, so many were raving about it but i didn’t notice where they all lived. Now I’m thinking sand is only good in warmer climates? Yikes.

Don't give up hope, it may work for you, or as you say, may work better mixed with something else. Sand isn't for everyone but depending on what type of sand you have, will dry out quickly outside and you can put lime, stall pdz or equivalent on it. It only smells a bit when wet. Personally I have it in the coop and run (mixed with gravel) and love it. It got wet in the coop (i have a concrete floor and we got flooded) but it dried out with raking. I haven't been interested in the deep litter method because I was worried it would become home to mice and other critters as well as bacteria. I like feeling I can clean up the majority of poop and sand doesn't make a home for mice or other critters. I bought a long handled scooper on Amazon and it does a great job.

 

[raingarden]

No run bedding will work if you cannot keep it completely dry.

Even stomped-down bare earth is not so bad if you keep it dry. What looks like barren dirt is surprisingly active with microbes that break up manure.

You don't often see a decent roof and extra wide eaves on a chicken run. But, that's what it takes to avoid the the possibility of a mess. Rain happens.

 

[Kelster65]

Exactly what I was thinking! Good luck. Hopefully, I can keep some of it dryer that way.

I'll let you know. I even put concrete around the front of the coop to keep water from going on. It's been torrential rain this summer and NOTHING can stand up to 6 inches of rain in a matter of 2 hours.

 

[Dhkoenig]

Hi Guys - I decided to bite the bullet and I am going to put sand in my big dirt run. We have two covered runs that are attached by a chicken door. The original run is 10x16 and has a slanted corrugated plastic roof and has one side with corrugated plastic and then another little panel that is also covered but two walls are completely open with just hardware cloth. The second and newer part is 10x12 and has a slanted shingled roof but no siding other than hardware cloth on 3 sides (the side that adjoins them is covered)

So.....I have done plain dirt and I am a daily scooper and it has been fine but three of my new pullets have feathered feet so I think the dirt (esp when wet from rain) will be bad. I tried chopped straw as an experiment and also shavings but when they get wet it is worse than dirt because when shavings get wet and combine with any kicked up droppings etc it is just a cesspool of illness waiting to happen even if I scoop every day (which I do with OCD fervor) So..... I decided Sand would be great but I only ordered 1 cubic yard which doesn't achieve the 3-4 inches of sand that everyone says you should do.

What is holding me back from doing the entire 4 inches in both runs is....at least with the straw and hay, when things didn't go as planned I could rake it all out and use it as mulch and go back to the dirt run. If that happens with sand, UGH cannot imagine how heavy it would be to try to get that out. If it didn't end up being a good option, could I just put top soil over it and use the sand as drainage under the topsoil?

I am not sure if I should start off with just like an inch in both runs instead of 3-4 inches to see if it is good so I don't get stuck having to get rid of tonnage of sand or if I should just go all in and do it the way everyone says 3-4 inches and if it ends up not being great, with rain or whatever, I can just clean it up and pour a ton of top soil over it.

Thoughts?View attachment 3192773

Update to Update!

After just going along and going along with the dirt (never bad but like some of you, I had areas that got drenched when there was a hard driving rain) and then some one in this wonderful forum told me about pine pellets! GAME CHANGER for me! While it may seem expensive because I need about 6 of the 40 pound boxes, I have only had to replenish it once since I first put it in and it is not expensive per box.

They are pellets, that look like feed pellets, and they absorb SOOOO much water! It is cool because when they get wet, they turn into this really fine almost like sawdust texture. At first I thought, jeez, they dissolve after the first rain, so am i supposed to buy 6 more 40 pound boxes each time it rains? But then I learned that after they dissolve they are still as absorbent. I have a 3 inch layer of it on almost the entirety of one of the runs and each time it rains, it soaks the rain up and then when it dries, it goes back to the nice dry material it was before it rained. It makes scooping SO easy. You can see the poops really well so you don't miss any and it clumps so it scoops right up. I recently replenished it because I scoop daily so over time the level needs replacing but to me this is the ultimate solution for runs. I still use hemp in the coop because it is always nice and dry in there and it smells so fresh and easy to scoop.

Small Pet Select sells the Pine Pellet Bedding.

 

[Krugerrand]

Not thoughts on the sand ... but I really like your runs!

 

[Dhkoenig]

I think you will be happy with the sand
Of course if it does not meet your expectations,, you can easily cover it over with topsoil.
I don't see topsoil, as being any better than sand.
Have you used or considered shredded wood chips,?? I have an area in back of yard that I replenish with wood chips from the tree cutting service. I get a load of it free when I need one,
I suggest you experiment,, and just add sand to one run. Then If you like it,, do the second run.
Everyone has different opinions on how deep the layer should be. In your case,,, you have that one yard. Just add it all into the first run.
If you like it,, then get more for second run.
I know that many peeps are divided on sand, or no sand. It may be a climate reason,, or poor drainage reason,, or many other reasons.
In my zone,, sand works just fine. I have a covered run, (multiple tarps) but only a small area with sand. My run area is about 16 feet by 70 feet. Run has other things besides chickens,,

WISHING YOU BEST,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Thanks so much for this! and wishing you the best too!