Livestock guardian dogs

[amberr]

I have a chocolate lab and my first chicks and keets come in a week. We want him to be a our flock guardian because the guinea fowl will free range regularly during day and the chickens a few times a few week. Cooped at night. He will be kenneled when we aren't home but want him out watching property when we are home. How can I get him to protect the chickens and not chase them? Training tips?

 

[BCMaraniac]

A Doberman cannot handle predators. It doesn't take nearly enough power to take down a human being that battling predators requires. Coyotes routinely kill pet dogs the size of Dobermans & German Shepherd Dogs. A 40 pound coyote will kill an 80 pound Doberman easily. Dobermans are also highly active while LGD breeds are not & thus require a lot more space, attention, & exercise than an LGD. LGDs aren't large so they can cover huge areas, they're large so they can resist injury in fights with multiple predators at a time. Dobermans are meant for human protection only & lack the power, toughness, & instincts to guard livestock from predators. They also can't live outdoors in cold or inclement weather & have no instinct for bonding with livestock.

There is a LOT of bad information out there about LGDs & why most dogs that are not of LGD breeds will not be able to perform as LGDs. Here is a list of traits you will find in all good LGDs. Remember, just because a dog is protective of you doesn't mean it is a good livestock guardian dog. They are not hunting or herding dogs, either. These traits below are ALL required for a good LGD. I wrote this for an educational group I run which exists to help people learn about LGDs, from selecting, raising, & training a pup to finding a good breeder or rescue to understand the many different breeds & why LGDs are different from other breeds of dogs.

~~~

Myth #2) Any breed or mix of breeds will be a good LGD if it is raised with livestock from puppyhood.

This myth was propogated by a a well-known author & is a constant thorn in the side of experienced LGD folks. The fact is, while certain individual dogs of a non LGD breed or breeds may occasionally work out as a working livestock guardian, this in no way suggests that just any dog anywhere can do it. Breeds exist because people discovered the simple genetic truth that breeding like to like has a greater tendency to produce like. LGD breeds have been bred for many years, in some cases millenia, to have a particular set of traits that predispose them to be good at the specific task of living with livestock 24/7, without immediate human direction, & protecting them from all threats. These traits include:

*a powerful, athletic, & agile build, able to soak as well as dish out a great deal of damage
*thick, loose skin (thicker than any other canid) which is difficult to pierce
*a high territorial defense drive that causes them to stand their ground rather than flee from a threat
*a naturally calm, submissive demeanor around flighty prey animals
*a physical morphology which gives them a softer expression which also serves to make them less intimidating in appearance to livestock
*low prey drive
*an instinctive ability to evaluate threat level & respond accordingly
*an affinity for weak & small animals (including children)
*a harsh, all weather, double coat which protects them from heat, cold, injury, wetness, dirt, & debris
*the ability to think independently, problem solve, take quick stock of any situation, & make effective decisions at a moment's notice
*the instinct to conserve their energy so they are always ready to take action
*a lower metabolism that requires less food for their size

If it does not possess ALL of these traits, it is not an LGD.

~~~~
Anna & the Thunder Mountain Gang
Woodruff, SC

I have a Great Pyr that I adopted 2 years ago as a three-year-old. He was raised by a woman indoors, kept snow white....in other words, he was her baby. Her husband went on the road to work, and she went with him, unable to take Ben. He was being shuffled between the in-laws, and kept tied, so I adopted him. He had never guarded livestock, just his owner whose husband traveled. So he came to our farm, and immediately became an outdoor dog. Add to the mix our 8 year old Australian Shepherd, who is a pet and stays indoors. When my husband had to be hospitalized to have a heart valve replacement, we had to secure Ben and Kodi in the barn so they could be cared for in our absence. So Kodi became an outside dog and never wanted back in the house. Ben does not want to come inside either. Last spring, I began noticing that Ben would run, looking up to the sky, and bark at large birds that flew over, effectively enforcing a "NO-FLY zone. Last summer, we decided to get chickens, and purchased juveniles, 12 week-20 weeks. Ben was free to roam the property and Kodi is in a very large fenced-in area. When the chickens arrived, Ben just walked among them calmly, and the chickens paid him no attention. Kodi on the other hand barked from the other side of the fence, but she became aware that they belonged there, and now pays no attention when they come into her lot. In fact, she goes into the pen with me to feed my small CXs. The chickens now free range and go up at night or in very inclement weather, and Kodi and Ben watch them. Two times that I know of, Ben has prevented hawks from coming down after the chickens, by running and barking at them. Kodi stands watch inside her lot,and alerts Ben when she sees or hears anything, and he comes and investigates since he runs free. On two occasions, however, when Kodi has seen possums at night and has come over the fence to kill them. Otherwise she never challenges her confinement. The two of them seem to complement each other.

I guess my point is that both of my dogs were raised indoors as pets, one for 3 years, and the other for 8 years. I really never expected them to guard the chickens,but they have assumed a guardian role, and have done it well. What they have done must be instinct, because they have had no training. I guess they know what belongs here and what doesn't.

 

[aart]

I have a Great Pyr that I adopted 2 years ago as a three-year-old. He was raised by a woman indoors, kept snow white....in other words, he was her baby. Her husband went on the road to work, and she went with him, unable to take Ben. He was being shuffled between the in-laws, and kept tied, so I adopted him. He had never guarded livestock, just his owner whose husband traveled. So he came to our farm, and immediately became an outdoor dog. Add to the mix our 8 year old Australian Shepherd, who is a pet and stays indoors. When my husband had to be hospitalized to have a heart valve replacement, we had to secure Ben and Kodi in the barn so they could be cared for in our absence. So Kodi became an outside dog and never wanted back in the house. Ben does not want to come inside either. Last spring, I began noticing that Ben would run, looking up to the sky, and bark at large birds that flew over, effectively enforcing a "NO-FLY zone. Last summer, we decided to get chickens, and purchased juveniles, 12 week-20 weeks. Ben was free to roam the property and Kodi is in a very large fenced-in area. When the chickens arrived, Ben just walked among them calmly, and the chickens paid him no attention. Kodi on the other hand barked from the other side of the fence, but she became aware that they belonged there, and now pays no attention when they come into her lot. In fact, she goes into the pen with me to feed my small CXs. The chickens now free range and go up at night or in very inclement weather, and Kodi and Ben watch them. Two times that I know of, Ben has prevented hawks from coming down after the chickens, by running and barking at them. Kodi stands watch inside her lot,and alerts Ben when she sees or hears anything, and he comes and investigates since he runs free. On two occasions, however, when Kodi has seen possums at night and has come over the fence to kill them. Otherwise she never challenges her confinement. The two of them seem to complement each other.

I guess my point is that both of my dogs were raised indoors as pets, one for 3 years, and the other for 8 years. I really never expected them to guard the chickens,but they have assumed a guardian role, and have done it well. What they have done must be instinct, because they have had no training. I guess they know what belongs here and what doesn't.

Guardian dog Utopia there! Great story, but probably rare I think.

 

[BCMaraniac]

Guardian dog Utopia there! Great story, but probably rare I think.

I am quite sure that is true....but I am thankful! I suspect their age helps with their sensibility as well.

 

[CAO122009]

 

[CAO122009]

I have one Central Asian Shepherd and I'm in the process of getting another, The females are the real workers of the LGD breeds. If you want a good breed for Livestock protection, stick with the ancient, uncommon breeds. The aboriginal breeds. Central Asian Shepherds, Caucasian Mountain Dogs, Turkish Kangal, Spanish Mastiff, Anatolian Shepherds, Akbash (not as hardy as the previous breeds, but still as good). Once you've selected a breed, you need to do your research on it and make sure you get a dog that comes from a breeder who actually works her dogs and will replace a dog if it won't work and protect livestock. As far as how many dogs to get, I recommend a minimum of two, depending on size of property and head of your stock. Another good tool is a spiked dog collar, If you go to this website: http://stephenbodio.blogspot.com/2011/02/spiked-collars.html, you will be able to find and buy one.

 

[mommycakes83]

My old girl is a natual guardian! She lays in the center of the flock and even chases away predators! Wow! Who would have thought! I was sure she would try to eat them! She has carried a chick back to flock too! English pointer!!

 

[Mi Ranchito]

I find great pry not fierce enough, anything that has been used as show dog or being bred as pets i just wont use. I prefer dogs that nothing but working dogs in their backround. With a good dog I expect to not lose 1 hen or anything. Also they should be able to dispatch predators without hurting themselves so we dont have to take them to the vet which will make it more expensive. Their kills should be clean and quick. A heeler or whatever else dog catches a coyote there is going to be some nasty nasty bites alll over your dog. WIth a good LGD you should not have that issue. Also they aren't family pets id expect them to live with the animals 24/7 not just sometimes.

The good thing about komadors they have this thick fur that protects them from predator bites. So if a coon or something attacks them back they are well protected.





remember tho never pet lines always working lines never show lines

I agree with you...I have two Austrailian Cattle Dogs / Heelers. The male is a show dog or was in his youth. And yes, although athletic, he would easily get hurt and he seemed to get sickly often. I spent more money keeping him healthy than my little female heeler. Now my little female heeler, she is ranch bred and raised and is an excellent guard dog. She is brave and goes after anything trying to get to my chickens and ducks! She is stout and can handle a good fight with the critters. She heals well and does not get sickly like the male dog. The only thing about her...is that every now and then, she will take a chicken as "payment." LOL!!! For the most part she leaves them alone. So, yeah...stay away from the fancy show dogs to guard your farm animals...go for those working dogs.

 

[centrarchid]

The female being better part I do not agree with. Females tend to mentality mature earlier and in my situation are slightly faster but males are the big guns when comes to actually dealing with predator. In my parts the coyotes do not fight back and run with every thing they got when challenged by a dog half again or better as big as they are.

CAO122009, lets see your dogs in working situation on ground that is not manicured like a yard.

 

[CAO122009]

Centrarchid, that pic of my pup was at a park and I live on 11acres with ledge, trees, and very cold winters and hot summers, plus I did mention how the female LGD's are the workers in the group.