Long-term Calcium Citrate Use?

[JewelBirds]

I have a Leghorn mix hen who will be 2 this March. The past week and a half she has been laying shell-less/soft shell eggs. After the first one, I gave her calcium citrate (2 tablets that according to the bottle is equal to 630mg) mixed in a little water that she willingly drank. I gave her that for 2 days and she laid two eggs with a shell. I stopped after that, but two days later she laid another soft shelled egg that I had to help remove.
I tried giving her some more calcium citrate, but she wouldn't drink all of it, so I don't think it was as effective and she laid another soft shell egg the next day (yesterday).
My question is whether it's safe to give calcium citrate long term and what else I should try in treating this issue. Worming maybe? Vitamin supplements?
They all get the same food (16% layer feed, no treats besides the occasional quack snacks, free choice grit and oyster shell), but she's the only one having issues.

 

[Sally PB]

I can't say how long would be "too long." I would go for a week, see if that helps. You can give her the pill straight into her beak. You don't need to dissolve it in water.

I've heard that if you pull down gently on the wattles, chickens will open their beak. I haven't done this, but it could be worth trying.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I have a Leghorn mix hen who will be 2 this March. The past week and a half she has been laying shell-less/soft shell eggs. After the first one, I gave her calcium citrate (2 tablets that according to the bottle is equal to 630mg) mixed in a little water that she willingly drank. I gave her that for 2 days and she laid two eggs with a shell. I stopped after that, but two days later she laid another soft shelled egg that I had to help remove.
I tried giving her some more calcium citrate, but she wouldn't drink all of it, so I don't think it was as effective and she laid another soft shell egg the next day (yesterday).
My question is whether it's safe to give calcium citrate long term and what else I should try in treating this issue. Worming maybe? Vitamin supplements?
They all get the same food (16% layer feed, no treats besides the occasional quack snacks, free choice grit and oyster shell), but she's the only one having issues.

I'd give her the Calcium Citrate orally, just pull down on the wattles and pop the tablet into the beak. Give for a week, then see if the soft shelled eggs return after you stop.

If the Calcium is firming up the shells, then I don't think deworming would help? If you are concerned about worms, then take a sample of her poop to your vet for a fecal float.

Leghorns are prolific layers, she may not be eating enough oyster shell or she may have a shell gland disorder. I'm not sure how long you can safely give Calcium Citrate. Perhaps @azygous may know.

 

[azygous]

It's for short term use only. The longest you want to give it would be two weeks. Beyond that, it can start to take a toll on the kidneys.

 

[TooCheep]

I'll offer an alternative solution that might work and won't have long-term problems. I have a hen that has never laid good shells naturally. She started with soft-shelled eggs even though I've seen her eating oyster shell. I take a Vitamin E gelcap (400 IU) and mix the oil into my small flock's daily fermented feed ration. It took 2 days for her shells to become normal. I tried removing the Vitamin E after a while, but she it took 2-3 days for her soft shells to come back.

My hen obviously has some issue around Vitamin E deficiency. The supplement when divided among my 7 chickens is within safe levels and I'm sure at least some of it ends up in the eggs as further nutrition for anyone consuming them.

I've never had to offer any special calcium/Vitamin D3 supplement beyond crushed egg shell and oyster shell.

 

[Shadrach]

I wouldn't give it for more than a couple of days. It's not a long term solution for lack of calcium.
630mg isn't an adequate dose in my opinion given layers pellets are likely to provide 4 to 5 grams of calcium daily for a hen that is eating properly.
One eggshell requires about 380 mg of calcium per gram of shell weight.

 

[JewelBirds]

I can't say how long would be "too long." I would go for a week, see if that helps. You can give her the pill straight into her beak. You don't need to dissolve it in water.

I've heard that if you pull down gently on the wattles, chickens will open their beak. I haven't done this, but it could be worth trying.

I'd give her the Calcium Citrate orally, just pull down on the wattles and pop the tablet into the beak. Give for a week, then see if the soft shelled eggs return after you stop.

If the Calcium is firming up the shells, then I don't think deworming would help? If you are concerned about worms, then take a sample of her poop to your vet for a fecal float.

Leghorns are prolific layers, she may not be eating enough oyster shell or she may have a shell gland disorder. I'm not sure how long you can safely give Calcium Citrate. Perhaps @azygous may know.

Thank you, I'll try giving it that way. I'll try it for a week and see if that helps.

My thought process is that worms take away nutrients from the digestive track, so maybe she is getting enough calcium from her diet, but they might be taking it away. And for the vitamins, I wasn't sure if there was something else necessary for calcium absorption (besides vitamin D3, which is already in the pills) or shell formation in general. Or as you said, she just may not be eating enough oyster shell or have some other issue going on, but I wanted to rule out the more easily treatable stuff first.

I'll offer an alternative solution that might work and won't have long-term problems. I have a hen that has never laid good shells naturally. She started with soft-shelled eggs even though I've seen her eating oyster shell. I take a Vitamin E gelcap (400 IU) and mix the oil into my small flock's daily fermented feed ration. It took 2 days for her shells to become normal. I tried removing the Vitamin E after a while, but she it took 2-3 days for her soft shells to come back.

My hen obviously has some issue around Vitamin E deficiency. The supplement when divided among my 7 chickens is within safe levels and I'm sure at least some of it ends up in the eggs as further nutrition for anyone consuming them.

I've never had to offer any special calcium/Vitamin D3 supplement beyond crushed egg shell and oyster shell.

I'll definitely try this if the week of calcium citrate doesn't work! Do you know the dosage for a single chicken?

Edit: grammar

 

[JewelBirds]

I wouldn't give it for more than a couple of days. It's not a long term solution for lack of calcium.
630mg isn't an adequate dose in my opinion given layers pellets are likely to provide 4 to 5 grams of calcium daily for a hen that is eating properly.
One eggshell requires about 380 mg of calcium per gram of shell weight.

I was under the impression from elsewhere on the forum that the dosage (although probably for a single use) was 500-600mg, so I figured she would get slightly less with it being dissolved in water and not drinking the entire thing. Would it be only one pill then, 315mg?

 

[TooCheep]

I'll definitely try this along if the week of calcium citrate doesn't work! Do you know the dosage for a single chicken?

Since mine are sharing a common feeder, I'm sure it varies. Also, I can't get 100% of the oil out of the gelcaps. I'd estimate that she gets 300-350 IU/7 birds = 43-50 IU/day/bird.

I just checked and you can get bottles of Vitamin E oil. They come in different concentrations, but the one I looked at comes to about 60 IU/drop. That should be an easy solution if you just want to dose a single bird.

 

[azygous]

Give one pill. This dosing issue came up recently when a member pointed out to us that we were confusing the label dosage recommendation with the actual amount of calcium in a single tablet. In the US, it's legally permitted to state that the calcium amount in a dosage right on the front label is actually twice as much as a single table contains. The amount in a single tablet is located in the finest print buried deep in the back label.

So now we instruct that one tablet be given from a bottle that states 630mg on the front label. Here is the thread where we tried to make some sense of this issue and get back on the same page. https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-in-each-tablet-and-how-much-to-give.1606610/

Unfortunately, misleading labeling in the US is perfectly okay, and the consumer has all of the responsibility to figure it out.