Long-term Calcium Citrate Use?

[JewelBirds]

I would give her an extra gram of calcium carbonate daily for a week. See if that makes any difference.
Laying hens can tolerate quite high levels of calcium. What they don't use to make an egg they can store in Medullary bones in their body which they can draw on when supplied or foraged calcium is in short supply.

Make a paste by adding a little water to the clcium carbonate. Make some small cubes of bread about one quarter of an inch square and soak the pieces of bread in the paste and offer it to the hen.

Alright thank you, I'll have to try that

 

[Sally PB]

I hope it's ok to piggy back onto this thread, as I have an ongoing problem with one of my pullets.

Back story: I treated her for salpingitis, and she seems to be doing fine... except she now lays no-shell eggs. There's a grit of texture to the membrane, but the last two have been laid overnight from the roost. I don't know whether another bird broke them to eat, or if the fell and broke.

Calcium citrate is the better option for a short term problem, but for a hen that isn't getting enough calcium in general, I would be looking at calcium carbonate. In my experience regular shell less eggs are symptoms of other problems unrelated to calcium intake.

I've been giving her pieces of calcium citrate, with peanut butter (thanks for the tip, @azygous, as she loves them). I tried the "pull the wattles down and stuff in the whole pill," but she would thrash and it was a big struggle. Then she would avoid me.

It's been over two weeks, so I think I'd better stop. I'm getting about 250-300 mg calcium citrate + D into her per day. ALL the birds love the PB, and it's difficult to get them to the right one.

Calcium citrate has half the calcium as calcium carbonate, but the citrate works twice as fast. Due to these different properties, the citrate form is what we want to use in an emergency because of its speed in absorption. The carbonate has much higher calcium content so it's what we want to give regularly to keep calcium levels at optimum levels in our laying hens.

So, I'm thinking I should get some calcium carbonate, and switch to that? Can I do that long term?

I feed Kalmbach 20% flock maker with both oyster shell and egg shell on the side. All the birds seem to like egg shell much better than OS. I'm almost out of egg shells, as a matter of fact.

I am thinking of switching to a layer formula for the calcium content, and finding a way to give them a bit more protein. Or mixing the two. (My rooster died last weekend, so I don't have the rooster/calcium issue. RIP, Snowbird.)

Suggestions on what to do?

Make a paste by adding a little water to the calcium carbonate. Make some small cubes of bread about one quarter of an inch square and soak the pieces of bread in the paste and offer it to the hen.

Filing this idea away, thank you.

 

[Justagalwithchicks]

I hope it's ok to piggy back onto this thread, as I have an ongoing problem with one of my pullets.

Back story: I treated her for salpingitis, and she seems to be doing fine... except she now lays no-shell eggs. There's a grit of texture to the membrane, but the last two have been laid overnight from the roost. I don't know whether another bird broke them to eat, or if the fell and broke.

I've been giving her pieces of calcium citrate, with peanut butter (thanks for the tip, @azygous, as she loves them). I tried the "pull the wattles down and stuff in the whole pill," but she would thrash and it was a big struggle. Then she would avoid me.

It's been over two weeks, so I think I'd better stop. I'm getting about 250-300 mg calcium citrate + D into her per day. ALL the birds love the PB, and it's difficult to get them to the right one.

So, I'm thinking I should get some calcium carbonate, and switch to that? Can I do that long term?

I feed Kalmbach 20% flock maker with both oyster shell and egg shell on the side. All the birds seem to like egg shell much better than OS. I'm almost out of egg shells, as a matter of fact.

I am thinking of switching to a layer formula for the calcium content, and finding a way to give them a bit more protein. Or mixing the two. (My rooster died last weekend, so I don't have the rooster/calcium issue. RIP, Snowbird.)

Suggestions on what to do?

Filing this idea away, thank you.

I'm hesitant to offer any advice in here because I'm definitely not an expert by any measure. I do know, however, my hen has had salpingitis on and off for quite awhile. The people in this forum saved her life but she still continued to fail over time. I then found a wonderful vet who seen her and she is still with us so far. It is a chronic situation of shelless eggs and or lash eggs over a long time period. She is now laying regular eggs again but we know it can change any day. Definitely up and down. She goes on an antibiotic when she lays a lash egg - or if she lays a shell less egg if she starts to "droop" we also dose her daily with calcium glubionate which is given via a needleless syringe. I hope your hen recovers and leads a healthy long life.

 

[Sally PB]

I then found a wonderful vet who seen her and she is still with us so far.

What did the vet prescribe or do to treat her?

How long has she had the problem?

 

[Justagalwithchicks]

What did the vet prescribe or do to treat her?

How long has she had the problem?

She started this last summer. I was really praying that after molting she would somehow revert back to normal but she laid a lash egg once she stopped molting. He treats her for egg yolk periontitis/ saplinitis. She gets a sulpha antibiotic for 14 days and Calcium Glubionate syringe dose daily. We see her eating the oyster shells. One thing I'm going to ad is we started giving her Oregano oil daily while on an antibiotic and now every other day and so far she has laid 4 beautiful blue eggs and no lash eggs. She is a sweet hen and yes this is time consuming with daily dosing. I only have 3 hens and they are all very friendly so it makes it much easier.

 

[azygous]

When we have a calcium issue in our flocks, we can sometimes get carried away with the calcium treatment. I need to remind everyone that too much calcium can cause kidney issues, resulting in kidney stones. I try to stress that calcium tablets, which are highly concentrated calcium, are meant only for a very brief period, usually no longer than two weeks.

The rest of the time, calcium should be made available free choice so each hen may self regulate how much she takes in. For this purpose, calcium carbonate in the form of oyster shell or egg shells are what we usually resort to.

This form of calcium is consumed and as it passes through the intestines, the calcium is absorbed into the bloodstream. Calcium uptake is assisted by exposure to sunlight and also vitamin D3 in the diet. The size of the particles of egg shell and oyster shell matters as larger particles remain in the intestines longer, allowing for more complete absorption. Therefore, grinding up the calcium carbonate into very small particles is not advisable, and neither is mixing it into food.

When a hen is not responding to calcium tablets to treat a deficiency, egg shells continuing to be thin or non-existent, it can be due to not enough sunlight or perhaps too many extras are being fed that interfere with calcium absorption such as spinach, and old age also is a factor. If poor egg shells continue in spite of all this, a vet should be consulted.

 

[TooCheep]

For those having longer term shell problems or were unsuccessful with calcium+D3, I'll reiterate that I've had an excellent experience with vitamin E supplementation (see posts #5 & 9 in this thread). I consider it a secondary solution, but it is cheap and easy with no real downsides.

 

[azygous]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4463624/ A government study on the role of vitamin E in poultry reproductive systems. This is the important take-away from the article - "Based on the observations reviewed here, we found that a moderate amount of vitamin E in poultry diet significantly protects semen/sperm qualities in male birds and egg qualities in female birds via decreasing the lipid peroxidation in semen/sperms and eggs."

It's always a kick to learn stuff that will assist us in maintaining a healthy, functioning flock. Thanks, @TooCheep .

 

[TooCheep]

Makes sense. It has a similar effect for humans.

 

[Justagalwithchicks]

For those having longer term shell problems or were unsuccessful with calcium+D3, I'll reiterate that I've had an excellent experience with vitamin E supplementation (see posts #5 & 9 in this thread). I consider it a secondary solution, but it is cheap and easy with no real downsides.

I am definitely adding this into my regimen for my hen with reproductive issues.