Looking for advice on how to respond to cockerel's "dance?"

[Fluster Cluck Acres]

It would however be my first cull, so I still might like to give him a little more time to prove himself / grow out, so it feels a little more worthwhile, and also that I don't have any reservations that we should have kept him longer.

Im the OP, and there are some similarities to our situations. I’ll share my experience. Im no expert, but maybe something I share can be helpful. The “dancing/herding” roo in my post was my first cull (and my favorite chick from that clutch) So I see stand where you are coming from.

I raised all 3 of those boys. When they got too mature, I separated them in their own pen. They were around 3ish months, and they hated it. I regret that decision, and wish I’d had the guts to just cull them the moment I knew I needed to separate them. It didn’t seem fair to put them through the stress of separating before culling them, although it did help me recognize that there was no other option. They wouldnt be happy living in that pen for the rest of their lives, and there were too many to be with the flock. So there was no other option.

The dancing rooster never did attack me, but the assertiveness with which he was always in my face made me decide not to keep him. We kept his brother who has so far been more mild-mannered. He lets me touch him, runs to me for treats, and acts a lot like the hens do toward me. I like this relationship (he’s only 6 months so we’ll see how it goes… but so far so good).

My current rooster’s papa was my first experience with a rooster. I thought he was a good boy. He respected me as long as I respected him, but I did have to respect him. I thought we had a good relationship. He only attacked occasionally, and I usually made an excuse for why he did. It was usually my fault. Then spring came around and he stopped respecting me. At this point I wasn’t mentally prepared to cull, and we fortunately found him a new flock. After he was gone I realized what a relief it was. I hadn’t realized how much I was always keeping an eye on him and looking over my should for him or worrying about what color boots or hat I was wearing … I could suddenly go mingle with my girls carefree! And, they started hanging out with me more. Since the roo and I tried to give each other space, that meant I was putting space between myself and my hens. Again, I didn’t realize this until he was gone. Rehoming him turned put to be a much better decision that I’d expected, and I won’t keep a roo like that again.




Although I haven't yet heard someone say, oh yeah, we should have given that dominant cockerel more of a chance... I only ever hear people say they should have gotten rid of him a lot sooner, or that they didn't hesitate to nip it in the bud.


This last part you wrote makes me think you have made your decision, know what you should do, and are working up the nerve to do it. You’ll make the right choice, and you’ll be a stronger chicken mama for it.

 

[MrsNorthie]

Well that's amazing, particularly given what you've written earlier on this thread. It is possible for a rooster to consider a dog às part of his tribe. In the various places I've looked after chickens there must have been over 30 dogs from Akitas to Jack Russel's and over 50 male chickens and I've yet to see a rooster try to herd a dog. My immediate thoughts are eier or both dog and rooster need therapy or you need an eye test.

How do you have that many roosters and not have fighting and/or over mating with hens? I am assuming you may have a bachelor pad for the boys?

I would like to learn more about how to have a successful relationship with our roosters, but I am not sure what that would be. Out of our 3 roosters, the dominant is occasionally aggressive towards us, flapping and flying at our legs, but it is becoming less frequent, but he will not take food and treats from my hand. The other 2 are not cuddly, but are not aggressive and will come up and take food from my hand and are quite gentle about it. One of these is the close #2 to the dominant, always in the immediate vicinity of the dominant and the hens, keeping watch, and the other seems to have adopted the roll of security patrol. They were all raised the same, all handled and hand fed from day 1 the hens are super cuddly and sweet (which, at times, I think this could be why the dominant acts up, they ignore him if they can sit on my lap and cuddle.) I am thinking that as our dominant has matured, he is taking his responsibilities quite seriously and sometimes looks at our presence like interference or a distraction from his duties. He is brilliant with the hens, in every way.

Do you have any suggested reading on rooster behaviour and how to interact with them? Everything that I read, so far, is basically, "if they don't conform, kill them.", but they are an important part of the flock. I want our dominant to feel secure, because we really do appreciate his treatment of the flock.

 

[Folly's place]

@Shadrach has a very good article about roosters, worth looking up. His management plan differs from most of our smaller flocks and limited space, so he's willing to tolerate/ manage roosters who may not work out for many of us.
Here our roosters need to NOT threaten us in any way, which is safer for us, our visitors, and everyone involved.
Mary

 

[Folly's place]

And genetics matter a lot, so people have cockerels raised many different ways, who may turn out fine. or not.
Mary

 

[Shadrach]

How do you have that many roosters and not have fighting and/or over mating with hens? I am assuming you may have a bachelor pad for the boys?

Do you have any suggested reading on rooster behaviour and how to interact with them? Everything that I read, so far, is basically, "if they don't conform, kill them.", but they are an important part of the flock. I want our dominant to feel secure, because we really do appreciate his treatment of the flock.

They fought every day but there are many different types or causes of fights and mostly they are about saving face.
I have never had a bachelor pad for the boys. If one has to lock up the boys then there is someitn wrong with the keeping conditions or the keeper doesn't really know what they are doing.

I linked to this article above. Most of what you might want to know is in there.
Click on the link and it will take you to the article.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/understanding-your-rooster.75056/

 

[Sussex19]

I have never had a bachelor pad for the boys. If one has to lock up the boys then there is someitn wrong with the keeping conditions or the keeper doesn't really know what they are doing.

Or it is just the best way for that particular person.
I keep most of my cockerels in a bachelor flock, not because I don't think they can stay with the main flock, but just because I find it easier to manage them that way.
And I do know what I am doing, and have done it both ways.
In the future, I think I might just keep them with their flocks, because I will be hatching less then I was this year.
Not disagreeing, just putting my perspective on it

 

[Shadrach]

Or it is just the best way for that particular person

I've got to be honest and write I'm not particularly interested in what's best for the person, I'm interested in what's best for the rooster.
I do moderate my views when reponding to people who have obviously been caught out by some chicken behaviours but for the experienced...they get both barrels so to speak.
A lot of truely terrible mistreatments get passed by with humans as the main priority. I'm a chicken first person. I've never made any bones about it and made it clear from my first few posts on BYC.

 

[aart]

I have never had a bachelor pad for the boys. If one has to lock up the boys then there is someitn wrong with the keeping conditions or the keeper doesn't really know what they are doing.

Isn't most your multiple rooster experience in a very large free range arena?

 

[MrsNorthie]

They fought every day but there are many different types or causes of fights and mostly they are about saving face.
I have never had a bachelor pad for the boys. If one has to lock up the boys then there is someitn wrong with the keeping conditions or the keeper doesn't really know what they are doing.

I linked to this article above. Most of what you might want to know is in there.
Click on the link and it will take you to the article.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/understanding-your-rooster.75056/

Thank you! This article is great. It kind of re-affirms some of my thoughts and observations.

"Watching the roosters from the various tribes here it has always struck me that a rooster gets an inordinate amount of credit for the few treats he finds. Those roosters that find the most treats seem to be able to attract more hens."

This is my Blue, I scatter treats and he runs around and calls the girls to each "pile" he finds and he makes sure they all get to eat before he does. I really love him, I just need to find ways of making things better for him to feel more comfortable. This article will help a lot and has actually made me realize some things that I can do to give him a hand.

We have quadrupled the run space and going to add-on again. It really isn't practical, where we are, to let them completely free-range, We have 6 acres, 1.5 acres is pond, we have lots of aerial and ground predators and we are very close to the road. But the run is like free ranging, within boundaries. I think once we have completed the final run expansion, I am going to plant more vegetation around the run and give them more perches and "activities" in side the run. We are also building a new coop for this flock, and the old coop will be for the new hens coming in next week.

Thank you, again!

 

[Geena]

I was thinking about this again this morning while watching the rooster move the hens around. Perhaps part of the disconnect between our ways of thinking is because you are a man and view it more like this

Not aggressive just like when your man, or women, slips their arm around your waist when out walking and gently steers you in some other direction, probably away from the shop window you've been standing at tempted to spend money you don't have.

and I, as a woman, see it as more of an aggressive and dominating behavior when it's directed at me, such as described here

This is one of the ways a rooster manages to get their hens who usually have their beaks in some patch of grass or other with food on their minds to move. You may observe that if that doesn't work the rooster will flash his hackles. That's not dancing either. That's him telling the hen that he doesn't care how tasty that worm in the grass looks or how comfortable she is in the dust bath she needs to move, NOW.

What happens next if the hen doesn't react to his hackle flash?

ETA- The interactions I've seen between the dogs and roosters is at first a shuffling, then hackles flashes, then if they dogs still haven't moved on, it proceeds to chasing pecking, flogging and spurring.