Looking for advice on sealing my pond: Liner vs. Sodium Bentonite?

[MeepBeep]

A liner is your best choice dollars per labor for that size pond, bentonite has to be laid down 1"-4" thick to properly seal a small pond like that, and you will lose most of the contouring if you go thick and if you go thin animals, fish and even just erosion and settling can destroy the bentonite seal...

Ideally for a pond that shape you would build and glue together a costume form fitting liner to preserve the contours, but that is time consuming and a lot of work.. If you just slap a liner in there you will have to deal with folds, creases and what not...

As said concrete or gunite is another option but bother require a significant amount more work to accomplish...

I have heard to line the bottom of the pond with damp newspaper before laying down the liner. This will form a "cushion" to prevent rocks from poking through. wetting the newspaper will help it stick together an form a dense mat under the liner.

I have used 1/4" under siding foam to line a pond and provide that 'cushion' layer for the liner it bends fairly easy, cuts easy and can be jig saw pieced together with duct tape...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Co...?keyword=1/4+in.+x+4+ft.+x+50+ft.+R-1+Fanfold

 

[wyoDreamer]

The newspaper will also swell up and possibly seal any tiny holes that can form. Besides, it is fairly cheap.

 

[Cold Canadian]

Use carpet underlay if you can , half a inch thick , will follow contours , a great cushion , and if you as a carpet installer you might get the old stuff being pulled out on a job , should be fairly cheap

 

[GodofPecking]

Holes in the ground are difficult to move around the yard. It's even harder to get a friend to help you by grabbing one side and dragging it somewhere else if you have filled it with concrete first. Do some aboveground first. Four bits of timber is more than enough and whatever cheap cheap / free plastic you can find. You can add things on both sides of the cheap plastic to protect it from the ground and pots that you place into the pond.

MY CARDINAL RULES OF POND BUILDING.

1) always in a shady spot. Because direct sunlight = green water.

2) Not straight under a tree. Leaves pollute the water too much. Black composted goop. Think crude oil at the bottom on the pond. Shade of a tree is good, but not directly under it.

If you concrete a pond into the ground in the wrong place it's the last pond you'll ever build. Use plastic above ground with bricks/ wood sides. Later, use a children's plastic clam pool and cover with rocks/wood/whatever the parts you don't want to see after you put it in and fill it up.

 

[MeepBeep]

1) always in a shady spot. Because direct sunlight = green water.

Algae needs nutrients to grow, direct sunlight will not turn a pond green unless there are excess nutrients in the water... With proper filtration and water quality monitoring a pond can be in direct sun and not turn green... This holds true for aquariums as well... The biggest risk for small ponds in direct sun is the excess water temps, this is especially true for above ground ponds...

2) Not straight under a tree. Leaves pollute the water too much. Black composted goop. Think crude oil at the bottom on the pond. Shade of a tree is good, but not directly under it.

Proper maintenance and proper filtration of the pond will easily prevent that from happening...

If you concrete a pond into the ground in the wrong place it's the last pond you'll ever build.

Why do you say that?

Use plastic above ground with bricks/ wood sides. Later, use a children's plastic clam pool and cover with rocks/wood/whatever the parts you don't want to see after you put it in and fill it up.

Personally, I'm against above ground ponds unless they are huge, as it's harder to maintain the temps in a fish safe temp zone in warm weather or in warm climates... In ground ponds provide a far superior heat sinking and heat buffering ability...

Koi for example can only handle water up to about 85°, ideally they should be kept bellow 75°... A week of 90° summer weather can easily push a small above ground pond past viable living temps, heck even the large lakes in my area can get above 75° during the summer months, so it's not hard to imagine as small above ground pond easily obtaining higher temps...

 

[GodofPecking]

Use carpet underlay if you can , half a inch thick , will follow contours , a great cushion , and if you as a carpet installer you might get the old stuff being pulled out on a job , should be fairly cheap

This is very good for underneath. Don't forget in the water to use 'coasters' for pots if the plastic is thin. sand, soil, gravel, a few old tiles or plywood squares if the fish are not for eating.

Proper maintenance and proper filtration of the pond will easily prevent that from happening...

I agree, people can either follow my golden rules of pond building or spend endless hours "maintaining" and "filtering" their pond as if it was a people pond. Personally I wouldn't think a pond is worth all the effort, that's why I give the golden rules, to avoid that effort. But I agree, you can do pool cleaning for a pond if you want to position the pond in the wrong place. Some people like cleaning pools, I say great !

MY CARDINAL RULES OF POND BUILDING.

1) always in a shady spot. Because direct sunlight = green water.

2) Not straight under a tree. Leaves pollute the water too much. Black composted goop. Think crude oil at the bottom on the pond. Shade of a tree is good, but not directly under it.

yes, good advice that, I should have thought of it myself. Wait a minute, I did !

 

[GodofPecking]

when I google "don't build a pond in direct sunlight" then result number 6 says it well in two paragraphs.

http://aquariumtidings.com/the-secret-to-building-a-thriving-and-healthy-fish-pond/

"One of the first things that you need to look at, is the location of nearby trees. Falling leaves can be a disaster in a pond, and will quickly foul the water if you don’t keep on top of removing them. That’s not to say that ponds have to be located far away from any trees – they just need to located strategically where few branches will directly overhang the pond."

"The amount of sunlight that the ponds receives is also something that you need to take into consideration, and ideally you want the pond to received between 4-6 hours of direct sunlight every day. However, if the pond receives more than 8 hours of direct sunlight, you will likely experience temperature fluctuations and algae overgrowth in the ponds. If it does receive more than 8 hours of sunlight, make sure that at least part of the pond is shaded to provide shelter for the fish."

I like my way of stating this, short and sweet. Incidentally I disagree with the 4-6 hours of sunlight. A good pond will be one that stays in shade all day, but is not under overhanging branches. There is never a shortage of indirect sunlight and plants grow just fine in the shade. Because ponds generally have so very many nutrients for algae to eat, the slightest direct sun will cause too much algae.

 

[MeepBeep]

when I google "don't build a pond in direct sunlight" then result number 6 says it well in two paragraphs.

http://aquariumtidings.com/the-secret-to-building-a-thriving-and-healthy-fish-pond/

"One of the first things that you need to look at, is the location of nearby trees. Falling leaves can be a disaster in a pond, and will quickly foul the water if you don’t keep on top of removing them. That’s not to say that ponds have to be located far away from any trees – they just need to located strategically where few branches will directly overhang the pond."

"The amount of sunlight that the ponds receives is also something that you need to take into consideration, and ideally you want the pond to received between 4-6 hours of direct sunlight every day. However, if the pond receives more than 8 hours of direct sunlight, you will likely experience temperature fluctuations and algae overgrowth in the ponds. If it does receive more than 8 hours of sunlight, make sure that at least part of the pond is shaded to provide shelter for the fish."

I like my way of stating this, short and sweet.

As I said algae needs nutrients and light to grow, this is a fact... Excess light alone simply does not equal a green pond as you stated, and the website you quoted even supports that argument by stating "can be" and "you will likely" not that it will...

Incidentally I disagree with the 4-6 hours of sunlight. A good pond will be one that stays in shade all day, but is not under overhanging branches. There is never a shortage of indirect sunlight and plants grow just fine in the shade.

As someone who has done their fair share of growing plants in ponds, aquariums, as well as gardening both indoor and outdoor, shade, indirect light and/or low light levels is simply not sufficient for many types of plants, thus many plants will not grow 'just fine' in shade, indirect light or low light levels, this is especially true in regards to many aquatic plants that really need several hours of direct sun light to thrive... Even common pond plants like many water lilies are known to be high light requirement plants that need direct sun to thrive, sure some can handle shade but not all, and many simply won't thrive without the direct sunlight... Feel free to Google aquatic pond plants and direct sunlight, you will probably discover that the general consensus is 4-6 hours of direct sunlight for most, and that is likely why the site you quoted suggested such...

Because ponds generally have so very many nutrients for algae to eat, the slightest direct sun will cause too much algae.

If your pond has an excess of nutrients in the water, it''s not being properly maintained and filtered, a properly maintained pond simply won't have excess nutrients that allows for an algae bloom that turns the water green... And it does not necessarily require a lot of labor or maintenance to maintain the water parameters if you design and setup the filtration and choose the proper amount and type of life in the pond... If setup properly you can create a pretty stable ecosystem in a pond that maintains itself for the most part...

I agree, people can either follow my golden rules of pond building or spend their pond as if it was a people pond. Personally I wouldn't think a pond is worth all the effort, that's why I give the golden rules, to avoid that effort. But I agree, you can do pool cleaning for a pond if you want to position the pond in the wrong place. Some people like cleaning pools, I say great !

Sorry but I don't consider your advice as a the 'golden rule' or agree that not following it equates to positioning your pond in the "wrong place"... Not following your rules does not equate to endless hours "maintaining" and "filtering" or the pond being in the "wrong place" pond positioning is not that dichotomous...

I'm a firm believer that if you are unwilling to devote the time to maintain and provide for your pets then you should not have them, and that includes having a pond with live animals and plants in it...

 

[GodofPecking]

[....] it''s not being properly maintained and filtered, a properly maintained pond simply won't have [....]

I'm a firm believer that if you are unwilling to devote the time to maintain and provide for your pets then you should not have them, and that includes having a pond with live animals and plants in it...

Look, that's all great and they are *my* golden rules, not yours. I think we could change the titles a bit to clarify. Your golden rules are for people who are "willing to devote the time to maintain" and filter and so on, my golden rules are for the laziest people in the world who believe firmly that using brainpower is better than using musclepower. It's great you've set up many aquariums and ponds, I have too. Mine would probably shock you. I don't clean fishtanks or filter them, I set them up not to require maintenance. I set them up so that I do not need to feed the fish. I set them up so that the fish will last many generations (of fish) on their own. I think ponds and fishtanks are for looking at in a relaxed state while doing next to nothing. I probably use woodwork to DO something that is enjoyable AND active at the same time.


Still going strong: Pensioner David Latimer from Cranleigh, Surrey, with his bottle garden that was first planted 53 years ago and has not been watered since 1972 - yet continues to thrive in its sealed environment


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...garden-thriving-40-years-fresh-air-water.html

I don't do cleaning. I don't do maintenance, if someone finds those things relaxing, I'll refer them to you. If someone wants to set up a fuss-free pond, then please refer them to my golden rules. I've never sealed up a pond or tank, but that is because I am too lazy. I do however design them the same way. Ponds=full shade and no overhanging branches.

 

[GodofPecking]

I should post one that has fish sealed in it, because we are talking about fish. I can't find the oldest one, which is many many decades old, the internet keeps pointing to amazon and other silly places. Nasa is doing what Nasa does best, LIE, falsely claiming they invented it when they totally did not, they do that a LOT.