Lost 5,4 wk old chicks, now my all black cutie is listless

[Imp]

dsvabulas,
So glad someone came along to give you more detailed help.

for your chicks.

Imp/Russ

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

MY ONLY THOUGHT IS THAT THE SULMET IS FOR COCCIDIOSIS AND OR A REPIRATORY infection"

BUT THE INFECTION CAN BE TREATED WITH SULMET AND AVOID THE TYLAN WHICH IS NOT NEEDED JUST FOR COCCIDIOSIS

THE SULMET IS USED FOR STOPPING THE COCCIDIOSIS AND HELPING THE CHICK TO GET GOING ON THE MEDICATION
plud ward off a respiratory infection

with all this said
the wet mash probiotic CAN BE GIVEN when treating for coccidiosis
as it will help the gut flora to be okay and fight the coccidiosis also

just what I know does work for this problem

AND GIVE THE SULMET TO ALL THE BIRDS
not just the ones showing signs of ruffled feathers etc
AS THESE SICK CHICKS giave it to the others drinking the water with them

any questions email me

 

[Mrs MIA]

I've just heard that Sulmet, being a sulfa drug, is much harder on their systems than the Amprolium. That's just my experience.

And I'd like to clarify on the Tylan... as I stated above, "...if they're really not responding I've given Tylan 50 injectible to make sure that nothing else takes hold while they're recovering." The Tylan is not for the cocci, and shouldn't be given if they're responding to the Sulmet or Amprolium. Only if they're really bad off do I worry about other infections creeping in.

Also, IMHO, when people think "probiotics" they automatically think yoghurt... which is usually fine and dandy. I'm giving my chicks yogurt right now. But they don't have cocci, which I've been told feeds off of the extra protein, so they can handle the extra protein in yogurt. A probiotic mash is fine, but one should keep the protein levels lower until they kick it.

Here's a cut/paste from Fowl Facts Information Center on medications:
"AMPROLIUM (Amprol or Corid--Merck)


USED FOR
COCCIDIOSIS - Very common disease.

SYMPTOMS
Pale birds; bloody droppings; ruffled feathers; deaths.
One celled parasite - coccidia - 9 species.
Host specific; immunity specific.
Coccidia - need moisture, O2, and temperature.


PREVENTION
Prevent by keeping birds dry; feed 0.0125% Amprol continuously to 8 weeks of age.
Amprol @ 1/3 oz. Powder/gallon water 10-14 days for treatment.

AMPROLIUM Amprol or Corid

ANTHELMINTICS

DRUG NAME:
AMPROLIUM (Amprol or Corid--Merck)

SPECIES
Most

FORM/ROUTE
Solution (9.6%) Water

DOSAGE/INTERVAL/DURATION
4 ml/gallon 5 days / 2 ml/gallon 5 days or longer

NOTES & REFERENCES:
For Rx of coccidiosis. McDonald, 1989 Some strains in mynahs & toucans may be resistant. Clean cages live steam. Supplement B Vitamins Harrison and Harrison, 1986.

COCCIDIOSIS
Coccidiosis is one of the oldest and most widely known diseases of poultry, Although there are good effective treatments and preventive medications (coccidiostats) for coccidiosis, it still occurs quite frequently in chickens today.

Coccidiosis is a disease caused by the invasion of the intestinal wall with coccidia, a type of microscopic one-cellular animals caused protozoa.

There are basically nine kinds of coccidiosis in chickens. One kind: Eimeria tenella, causes cecal coccidiosis, where blood is found in the two blind pouches (ceca) of the chicken-gut, and in chronic or healed cases a yellow core ("cigar") can be found in the ceca. The other eight kinds infect the small intestine.

The two most important ones are Eimeria Acervulina and Eimeria Necatrix. Both damage the intestine severely and can cause morality, unthriftiness and loss of egg-production. Turkeys have their own kinds of coccidiosis, different from chicken varieties. There are seven species of coccidiosis found in turkeys.

A mild coccidiosis infection is not very harmful and is actually necessary to create immunity in the future laying hen, if she is to live on the floor.

Coccidiosis organisms develop little eggs (oocysts) in the intestine that are passed in the droppings and can then infect other chickens in the same pen. If chickens are held on wire floor, they cannot get in contact with droppings and will generally remain free of coccidiosis. Wet litter and warm temperature induce a heavy coccidiosis infection in the litter. That's why many coccidiosis outbreaks occur in the springtime (May, June).

Preventively, drugs are given in the chicks starter and grower feed, from day-old until 12-15 weeks of age. Such drugs are called coccidiostats, because they inhibit the growth of the coccia, but leave enough coccidia alive to permit the build-up of immunity to coccidiosis in the growing pullet.

In broilers, no immunity against coccidiosis is needed because of their short life span. Therefore in broilers we frequently use coccidiostats that completely inhibit coccida build up.
Severe infections of coccidiosis will result in young chickens being sleepy and sitting with ruffled feathers. In cases of cecal coccidiosis, dropping will contain blood. Heavy mortality can result if treatment is not started immediately.

Treatment consists of drugs such as liquid amprolium or sulfa drugs (Sulmet, ESB3 or Whitsyn), but one should be careful with sulfa drugs, as they can be toxic when given too long or in too high dosages.

Never give sulfa drugs to laying hens. In E. Necatrix infectious blood may occur in the intestine and mortality can be 1% per week or more.
E. Acervulina infections are less dramatic, but tend to be more chronic in nature with long term damage to the intestine and resulting in smaller, unthrifty pullets that do not produce enough eggs.

If chickens appear sick and ruffled from coccidiosis, get a diagnosis at a diagnostic laboratory. It can be made quickly and medication started immediately.


Amprolium (Corid) - for treating coccidiosis; very safe. (See recommended dose under coccidiosis).

Sulfaquinoxaline or Sulfamethazine - water or feed; less safe; somewhat toxic to bone marrow. Withdrawal - 10 days."
Here are the direct links to the info...
Sulmet
http://fowlfacts.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=medshhh&action=display&thread=377
Amprolium
http://fowlfacts.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=medshhh&action=display&thread=152

I think part of the appeal of the Amprolium is that you don't have a withdrawal period for laying hens. With Sulmet, you have to toss the eggs (or feed them back to the chickens boiled) for 10 days.

Everyone who has experienced cocci in their flock has a way of treating it... each flock will respond differently. I don't want to start any arguments; I'm just relaying what works for me and what I do. You need to choose what works best for you, and it may be a combination of everyone's advice.
Hope your babies are better soon.

 

[speckledhen]

I am adding something to this Corid vs Sulmet discussion. Sulmet is NOT effective against one of the nine types of cocci, the one known as eimeria tenella. That type sets in between 4-8 weeks most often and does cause intestinal bleeding, more so than other types, some say. Sulmet won't touch cocci here at my place, so that is something to consider. I use the Corid liquid at about 9 cc in one gallon waterer each day for 5-7 days, though, if the babies are less than two weeks old, I'd lower that to 6 cc.
Tylan, IMO, would have no place in treating cocci and would be very hard on them, if used in conjuction with cocci meds.
I do use yogurt and buttermilk in runny oatmeal while they are on cocci meds, plus sometimes, I add nonfat powdered milk right into the starter crumble, as much as 1/3 of the feed.
Though cocci may be the trouble, and often is, with chicks this age, there are other things that may be the problem, so pay attention and if the treatment isnt working and they dont seem to be getting better, then it may be something else.

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

THANKS FOR THAT INFO
yes I am a firm believer in using corid

and the information is true as I have used it and is true
we used to use sulmet as it was the only coccidiosis med after they took he one with arsenic off the market

I have and many others used the wet mash probiotic for chicks and adults and have had no other problems with it

so with experience use what works for you

when I try to help folks I try and read their posts with full content on what might be happening with the birds

so any questions I always want folks to email me

I am always glad to help if I can

and thanks to speckeld hen as to the use of 9.6% corid

we always had 29% corid amproylium so it is given stronger
at rate of 3-4 tsp

Speckled hen what amt of tsp is the 9cc or 6cc?
thanks for helping out here

any questions email me

 

[Mrs MIA]

Hmm... learn something new every day...

Thanks Cyn!

 

[speckledhen]

Glenda, the Corid liquid I use is the 9.6% solution. Costs me about $20 for 16 ounces. It's not easy to find around here, but First State Vet supply right now has a special on the powdered Corid, which may be a good deal.

5 cc's- 1 tsp

10 cc = 2 tsp. so, I'd say that a teaspoon and a half would do for about 6 cc.

For those who dont know, cc = ml, so if you have a measuring device that measures in ml, you can use that in place of cc's.

 

[dsvabulas]

Thanks very much all...I had to drive out an hr and a 1/2 to get sulmet, NO-ONE around here carries corid. I will have to order that. I will start them tomorrow. They were all sleeping when I got back at 9. I'll start it in their water to have throughout the day, (have to be to work at 8am) and then start a good regime when I get home. I also have been using powdered milk in their crumbles daily and given yogurt 2-3 x's per week. I hope they handle the sulmet okay. With all the great help I've gotten here, I feel confident that they will be okay. The all black girl is slowed down, but still picking at food so that is a good sign, and, the coop is getting built. Sheesh, I had RIR's 10 yrs ago and didn't have this problem. The chicks haven't been out, but I garden (alot) and tend to my compost pile. It has been nothing but rain here in the NE, so I don't doubt that I brought it in to them. Gotta go to bed. Will update after treatment! Bon Nuit, Donna

 

[allison finch]

I am so grateful for this thread.

My 6 week old pullets seemed fine when I got them a week and a half ago. One started being ruffled and listless. I seperated her out and put he inside with a light and newspaper substrate. It was then that I saw blood in her stools. Reading this post, I am searching for Corid. Not finding any locally, I purchased Sulmet. I mixed Sulmet/water with powdered starter and acidopholus. I fed it to the pullet with an eye dropper. She readily drank it. The second feeding this morning, she seemed a little better and even pecked at some mix that dropped in my lap. I will be going home for a third feeding soon. I am SO hoping to see some improvement.

I have also put Sulmet/water in the waterer in my coop for all the other pullets who had contact with the sick one.

Thanks again and I will check back here for any further helpful hints.

 

[Mrs MIA]

Quote:

Yay! She should get better...