Low Hatch Rate

[Claires Poultry]

Hello everyone! Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions!
I have an advanced Brinsea incubator and I am having low hatch rates. It is all automatic and everything so it should work really well. I have read a lot of reviews about how they always have high hatching rates because they are such good incubators. It is of my understanding that a good average hatch rate is about 85%.
My last hatch had about a 30% hatch rate with fertile eggs. I am thinking that maybe I am not cleaning the incubator thoroughly enough and that is why it is giving me low hatch rates.
I do everything all natural and I don't use chemicals. I clean the non-electrical parts in the sink with soap and warm water. Then after I have cleaned them with soap I disinfect them with vinegar. For the electrical parts I go over them with a rag dampened in vinegar.
I know that dirty incubators can give you a low hatch rate. I am wondering if perhaps the vinegar isn't cleaning the incubator good enough and that is why I am having low hatch rates.
I am thinking I might try to let the incubator sit out in the sun for a while to solarize it. Maybe it would help get rid of the harmful bacteria.
Does anybody else out there have experience with cleaning incubators with vinegar and still having good hatch rates? Can you think of what the problem might be? Does anybody have any ideas for cleaning an incubator naturally?

 

[Ridgerunner]

There are a lot of reasons you might be getting a low hatch rate. Are the 70% that don't hatch turning into rotten eggs that smell horrible? If that is not happening them cleaning your incubator is not the problem.

Have you opened the unhatched eggs to see if they developed and then quit or just never started developing? That's the first hing the professional hatchers do so they have an idea what is going on.

Are they your eggs or someone else's eggs? Shipped eggs often have low hatch rates because they get shaken when shipped or may go through some environmental extremes. If they are yours how long do you store them before you incubate them and how do you store them? Do they go through temperature extremes? Are you storing them either flat or pointy side down? Do you turn them if they are stored for several days?

Have you calibrated your incubator to assure the temperature is correct? Brinsea is a really good incubator but sometimes the factory settings are not as good as they could be. I don't trust that any incubator thermostat is set properly until I check it. What humidity are you using?

The more you can tell us about what you are doing the more likely we can come up with suggestions to help. It's hard to diagnose a disease if you don't know the symptoms.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Diet of the parents could be a part of it. Do they forage for much other than what you feed them? I imaging you grow your own wheat, makes sense to feed it. But wheat by itself does not provide a lot of the vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and other things they need. You can try buying a complete chicken feed and try feeding them that a couple of weeks before you collect eggs to incubate and see if that helps.

At what stage do the eggs that start to develop quit? If it is within the first week of incubation it is usually something that happens to the eggs before incubation starts. If it is during the last week it is usually something to do with the incubation. That may tell you where to look hardest.

If you can find a thermometer you trust, like a medical thermometer that has already been calibrated, check it out to assure the temperature is pretty close to right. That is actually a pretty common problem. Are you putting the eggs in the turner pointy side don, that can make a big difference. From what you describe you really should be doing better. I'll include links to a couple of incubating troubleshooting guides that might help.

Mississippi State Incubation Troubleshooting

http://extension.msstate.edu/content/trouble-shooting-failures-egg-incubation


Illinois Incubation troubleshooting

http://urbanext.illinois.edu/eggs/res24-00.html

 

[Ridgerunner]

Here's one, It's a PDF file, on second page under Temperature and humidity during storage.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=20&ved=2ahUKEwiQzfzIgrPhAhUsnq0KHa0UBLEQFjATegQICBAC&url=https://aglifesciences.tamu.edu/posc/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2012/08/EPS-001-Incubating-and-Hatching-Eggs1.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1oMdjCJe4UpAOJQUPWgz31

Here's another stating at what temperature the egg will stop developing, 21°C = 69°F
https://www.petersime.com/hatchery-development-department/egg-storage

Here's another:

https://books.google.com/books?id=eIFRAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA513&lpg=PA513&dq=72°F+and+egg+development&source=bl&ots=1lLJt3n-F1&sig=ACfU3U30TZnP-BEg2n4q6TVh4lNfTTpbcQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjW59iJirPhAhVPQq0KHf82Ap8Q6AEwE3oECAkQAQ

Interesting articles, thanks for posting. I've often linked that A&M article as a guide to storing eggs for incubation. I'm not sure if I've read the others or not.

My understanding is that the embryo is alive from fertilization on. It develops some inside the body of the hen as it passes through her internal egg making factory and is at incubation temperature, that's why you see the bull's eye around a fertile freshly laid egg. Since that embryo is alive you can kill it, either through excessive heat or cold. Cycling from warm to cool and back is also supposed to be bad. Some eggs can go to extremes and still hatch, such as being stored in the refrigerator at pretty cold temperatures, but the point is that fertility decreases. It's a testament to how tough some of those eggs can be. The longer they are stored at those extremes the more fertility drops. If you are hatching 1,000,000 eggs a week like some commercial hatcheries do even a small percentage drop quickly becomes important.

The way I understand it, as long as that embryo is alive it is developing some. A poultry science professor once said that in a talk if my memory is correct. If it ever stops developing it dies. How fast it develops depends on its temperature. The warmer it is the faster it develops. If it is cold that rate is very slow. If it gets warm it is pretty fast. That's why the longer they are stored the more likely they are to lose hatchability.

The loss of humidity while storing them is often ignored on here. If the air is pretty dry, which it often is in the house with heating or AC on, the longer they are stored the more moisture they lose before incubation starts. The closer you can store them to ideal conditions the longer the embryo can last.

When I collect eggs for hatching I mark them with numbers in the order I collect them. A "1" was collected before a "24". Part of that is that I put a red number and a black number on opposite sides so I can see which side is up when I turn them. Part of that is that I like to have distinct markings on each egg so I can tell how long one has been pipped or if I saw one moving before it pipped. That also allows me to observe some things. I store them at room temperature, 72 F when the heat is on and 78 when the AC is on. I used to store them in the turner on a dresser but since my wife got a house dog I now store them in a drawer in that dresser and turn them by hand.

From one of those articles hatcheries can store eggs at ideal conditions for 20 days. I limit myself to collecting eggs for 7 days before I incubate them. Usually I have a broody clutch earlier but 7 days is pretty normal for the incubator. I have noted which eggs are smaller or larger to see if that made any difference in when they hatched. Smaller eggs are supposed to hatch earlier than larger eggs. I did not see any difference. I have purposely noticed if the order they were laid (how long they sere stored before incubation) made any difference in which ones hatched or did not hatch. It did not. An egg that had been stored a week was as likely to hatch as one that was laid the day I set them.

This doesn't mean I don't believe the science. I do believe the science. But I'm not hatching 1,000,000 eggs every week of the year. I may set two dozen eggs two times a year and maybe three or four broody hens. My database is really small. You have to have enough eggs for averages to mean something, I don't. One egg not hatching swings my incubator hatch rate 4%. 40,000 eggs a week swings those hatchery rates 4%. Quite a difference. For my purposes buying a small refrigerator, setting the temperature up fairly warm, and setting many trays of water in there to get the humidity up isn't worth an egg each hatch. If you are trying to hatch enough eggs it may be.

From my experience what the OP has described the hatch rate should be a lot higher than 30%. Not 100% but the commercial hatcheries average about 90%, pretty evenly split between things that happened before the egg was incubated and things that happen during incubation. I usually don't get 90% either, but unless I do something really wrong like shaking the eggs a lot during transportation, I don't get 30% either. I'm more likely to be in the 80's, whether in my incubator or under a broody if you average out all my broody hens in a season.

I can't see that Claire is doing anything that wrong. Her incubator cleaning and the eggs she is setting should be more than sufficient to stop rotten eggs but she still gets a few. I don't understand that at all. Her eggs hatching at 21 to 22 days says her temperature is not off enough to cause any real issues. Maybe something to do with humidity, North Dakota can be pretty dry? I'm totally frustrated, I can't see anything really wrong, certainly not wrong enough to cause that bad a hatch rate.

 

[Kiki]

The birds I was collecting the eggs from were 1 year old Black Australorps. I did not have a separately purchased thermometer that I was using in the incubator.

Get one or two.
Your temp may be off.

 

[007Sean]

Interesting! I would like to see it.
Many people keep their eggs (for eating) on the counter not the fridge and 72 is within the range of normal living area temperatures...

Here's one, It's a PDF file, on second page under Temperature and humidity during storage.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=20&ved=2ahUKEwiQzfzIgrPhAhUsnq0KHa0UBLEQFjATegQICBAC&url=https://aglifesciences.tamu.edu/posc/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2012/08/EPS-001-Incubating-and-Hatching-Eggs1.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1oMdjCJe4UpAOJQUPWgz31

Here's another stating at what temperature the egg will stop developing, 21°C = 69°F
https://www.petersime.com/hatchery-development-department/egg-storage

Here's another:

https://books.google.com/books?id=e...hUKEwjW59iJirPhAhVPQq0KHf82Ap8Q6AEwE3oECAkQAQ

 

[Kiki]

Diet of the parent stock does make a huge difference.

How old are the birds you are collecting eggs from
And
Do you have a separately purchased calibrated thermometer in the bator?

 

[Ridgerunner]

That's a lot different diet from just feeding them wheat. For thousands of years chickens have lived on farms like yours where they foraged for practically everything they ate in good weather months and were fed home grown supplements like wheat or corn in the winter months. I was raised on one of those farms in the hills and ridges of Appalachia. We didn't have any extra money either. The only supplemental food our chickens got was home grown corn in the winter. We only used broody hens, no incubators, and they just went broody in the good weather months when forage was better. Those broody hens had good hatch rates. If you are trying to hatch eggs in winter maybe diet has something to do with hatch rate but not in summer.

Diet has nothing to do with the eggs going rotten. Eggs go rotten because bacteria gets inside. The material inside the egg is greatly nutritious to bacteria, they really thrive on it. Incubation temperature is perfect for bacteria growth. Once bacteria gets inside the shell it multiplies rapidly. That's why scientists often use eggs kept at incubation temperatures to culture bacteria.

So how does bacteria get inside? Just before the hen lays the egg she puts a coating on it that we call bloom. That's why a freshly laid egg looks wet, it is. That bloom quickly dries and forms a protective barrier that helps stop bacteria from getting inside. It is so effective that a hen can lay eggs for a couple of weeks in a hidden nest on the ground somewhere, then incubate them for three more weeks and bacteria not get inside. Ducks and turkeys do the same thing for longer incubation periods.

The egg shell is porous so without that bloom bacteria can easily get inside. For an egg to go rotten on a regular basis that bloom is probably being compromised. If you wash the eggs, handle them with dirty oily or wet hands, sandpaper dirt off the shell, or rub them clean with your thumb you can remove that bloom. If the egg has clumps of poop or dirt on it that can compromise the bloom. I've seen bits of bedding sort of get stuck in that wet bloom so when you remove it you leave an opening for bacteria. Don't set cracked eggs, those cracks give bacteria a route inside plus the egg will loose way too much moisture to hatch. A dirty incubator can cause bacteria to get inside but how you describe cleaning yours should work well. I use bleach instead of vinegar but just warm soapy water should be real close to enough.

I'll set eggs that have a light dusting of dirt, not poop though. Poop on the eggs is bad. I'll repeat, diet has nothing to do with the eggs going rotten. Something is happening to let bacteria inside.

Can you get some eggs from another source and do a test hatch? It is possible that your rooster has some kind of problem. A test hatch with other eggs should tell you if the problem is with the flock or source of eggs. When you transport those eggs be careful not to shake them on rough country roads. I made that mistake once and got a 30% hatch rate from the eggs being shaken so bad. The breeder I got those eggs from was upset that the hatch rate was that bad but it was my fault, not her flock's.

Your parents probably grew up like I did, seeing chickens do quite well the way you are feeding them. Your grandparents probably did too, all the way back to pioneer days. They know from experience that chickens can do quite well and be valuable livestock raised and kept that way. But you got yours from a breeder, not pioneer chicken stock. Have you spoken to that breeder about your problem? That might be an expert source you can take advantage of.

When you do get chicks to hatch are they early or late? If they are consistently 2 to 3 days early your incubator is too warm regardless of what the thermometer says. If they are consistently 2 to 3 days late it is too cool. If they are pretty much in time the problem is not your thermostat/thermometer.

Other than that try going through those troubleshooting guides and see if you can figure out what is going on. Good luck.

 

[Claires Poultry]

The majority of the eggs were fertile when I candled them. There was only a few that weren't. I keep the temperature between 99.3 and 99.6 degrees Fahrenheit and the humidity at 40-50%. The incubator also has an egg turner so I don't have to turn the eggs by hand.
I wonder if the low hatch rate has something to do with the feed that the chickens are eating. I just feed them wheat. But the interesting thing is I feed my Muscovy ducks the exact same thing and they have great hatch rates - sometimes, actually quite often they have a 100% hatch rate.

 

[Claires Poultry]

Diet of the parent stock does make a huge difference.

How old are the birds you are collecting eggs from
And
Do you have a separately purchased calibrated thermometer in the bator?

The birds I was collecting the eggs from were 1 year old Black Australorps. I did not have a separately purchased thermometer that I was using in the incubator.