Maine

[lazy gardener]

I'm trying to do a few things to get the chickens ready for winter. The hoop coop will have plastic on the ends in the winter, but right now the ends are wide open (covered in hardware cloth). The hoop-shaped roof is corrugated metal on one side, and corrugated clear on the other. When DH built it, he had started to line the metal part with a silver bubble-wrap-type insulation, but never finished. We had a rooster with frostbite, but otherwise everyone was fine.

We still have the roll of silver insulation, so I decided I would try to finish lining the ceiling last weekend. I did not finish. This morning I looked out and things were quite frosty, but the roof of the hoop coop looked like patchwork. Every where there was insulation was covered in frost, and everywhere else, the heat from the chickens had melted the frost away. I was pretty surprised by this. The ceilings are 10 feet high and the ends are open to the air, but apparently the chickens give off quite a bit of heat! I was thinking putting up the insulation was pointless, since the other side of the roof is just thin plastic, but now I am inspired to finish the job. I'm hoping the new rooster can get through the winter without frostbite.

Lazy gardener, I think you might need to change your name to hardworking gardener. Your chickens are lucky having someone dig up dandelions for the winter! I still haven't even dug my potatoes or carrots. The cooler weather that's coming ought to get me moving.

Thanks Bucka, but I'll stick with the handle of Lazy gardener. The lazy part refers to avoiding extra gardening tasks (ie: weeding and watering and tilling) by using a deep mulch. Every aspect of my gardening is designed to limit the work input. I only loosen the soil that I will be planting in. Why till your walking paths... for that matter, why till at all? If it's under mulch, the soil stays soft and moist year round. It thaws earlier in the spring, it doesn't turn into the soggy mud mire in the spring... while others are waiting for their gardens to dry out enough to get the tiller into them, I'm happily putzing around in my garden, never have muddy feet, and can plant as soon as the frost is out, which, as I stated previously, is way earlier than my neighbors! Although I wish I had more garden space available... what gardener doesn't! I plant most of my crops in wide beds, interplant, trellis, sheet compost (why clean up your garden, haul the stuff to your compost pile, spend time turning it, only to cart it back to your garden as finished compost... when you can just shove the stuff under the hay between a couple of rows or beds and not have to tend it. While most gardeners are toiling in their gardens mid summer, fighting the weeds, I get to visit my garden often, enjoy the sights and smells, pick a few flowers, (I never plant vegetables without having flowers to go with them) and harvest what I want. My garden is a never ending adventure and teacher.

 

[buckabucka]

Lazy gardener, so do you put banana peels and other kitchen scraps directly under the hay in the garden? I do have a compost pile, but I am forever trying to get it to heat up properly.

 

[lazy gardener]

Oh yeah. But be warned. If you put a bunch of sloppy stuff in the path under the hay, it may be slippery, so if I use a path, I dig it in a bit. If I have any open space in a bed, i just start dumping it there, and layering it with extra hay for next years heavy feeders. The worms can get to work on it immediately, so it's a combination of composting and vermicomposting. Re: piled compost: compost happens no matter how it is piled. The only time you have to worry about if it is heating up properly is if you are trying to make it super fast, or if you have pathogens that you are trying to kill off. If you have too much nitrogen, it goes anaerobic and smells like sewer, if too much carbon, it takes a lot longer, but it will all eventually turn into black gold. A good trick for a high carbon pile is to add more nitrogen via: pour some ammonia on it, add some urea or regular fertilizer, or pee on it!!! An other thing you can do with any weeds you happen to have is dump them in a bucket and add water. The weeds will break down and give you a nice rich "compost (or weed) tea. It'll stink, b/c it is anaerobic, but it will be great fertilizer.

 

[Jazor]

...Every where there was insulation was covered in frost, and everywhere else, the heat from the chickens had melted the frost away. I was pretty surprised by this. The ceilings are 10 feet high and the ends are open to the air, but apparently the chickens give off quite a bit of heat! I was thinking putting up the insulation was pointless, since the other side of the roof is just thin plastic, but now I am inspired to finish the job. ...

From what I recall they can give off about 10 watts apiece. So, depending on the size of the area, and amount of birds--they can actually generate enough heat on their own. This is how my birds will "enjoy" their winter. I've predator proofed (much as I can) a section of the barn for them--and they do the rest.

When it comes to insulating, I really don't think it's worthwhile unless you're insulating the whole thing. I doubt it's worth the money, or even the effort, if you're not going to have the entire structure insulated. Think about your home: if you have poorly insulated windows/doors how much heat you lose just via those small gaps is often enough to make people invest in upgrades. Now to extend that issue to, say, an entire section of roof (or wall) not being insulated at all. You'd be hemorrhaging heat faster than you were producing it. To me that sounds like a waste of time.

I'm not a contractor or by any means a competent builder--this is strictly opinions from a high-tech redneck. Don't mistake me for someone who knows what they're talking about, though!

Cheers,
Jazor

p.s. want more heat? add more chickens! chicken math will rule the world

 

[lazy gardener]

Perhaps that is the reason why in the long ago agricultural societies, folks had all of their livestock in the space under their houses. Any one care for a good dose of chicken mites to spend the night with??

 

[Jazor]

Perhaps that is the reason why in the long ago agricultural societies, folks had all of their livestock in the space under their houses. Any one care for a good dose of chicken mites to spend the night with??

Sleep tight don't let the bed bugs bite!

 

[ashandvine]

All the young Orloffs have died. Good new is that the remaining seven are looking fine, even the one with the bacterial infection is recovering well. Gosh I hope this is a trend.

 

[CoopChick719]

Thanks Bucka, but I'll stick with the handle of Lazy gardener. The lazy part refers to avoiding extra gardening tasks (ie: weeding and watering and tilling) by using a deep mulch. Every aspect of my gardening is designed to limit the work input. I only loosen the soil that I will be planting in. Why till your walking paths... for that matter, why till at all? If it's under mulch, the soil stays soft and moist year round. It thaws earlier in the spring, it doesn't turn into the soggy mud mire in the spring... while others are waiting for their gardens to dry out enough to get the tiller into them, I'm happily putzing around in my garden, never have muddy feet, and can plant as soon as the frost is out, which, as I stated previously, is way earlier than my neighbors! Although I wish I had more garden space available... what gardener doesn't! I plant most of my crops in wide beds, interplant, trellis, sheet compost (why clean up your garden, haul the stuff to your compost pile, spend time turning it, only to cart it back to your garden as finished compost... when you can just shove the stuff under the hay between a couple of rows or beds and not have to tend it. While most gardeners are toiling in their gardens mid summer, fighting the weeds, I get to visit my garden often, enjoy the sights and smells, pick a few flowers, (I never plant vegetables without having flowers to go with them) and harvest what I want. My garden is a never ending adventure and teacher.

I like the way you think LG! How deep of a mulch are we talking? Hmmmm

From what I recall they can give off about 10 watts apiece. So, depending on the size of the area, and amount of birds--they can actually generate enough heat on their own. This is how my birds will "enjoy" their winter. I've predator proofed (much as I can) a section of the barn for them--and they do the rest.

When it comes to insulating, I really don't think it's worthwhile unless you're insulating the whole thing. I doubt it's worth the money, or even the effort, if you're not going to have the entire structure insulated. Think about your home: if you have poorly insulated windows/doors how much heat you lose just via those small gaps is often enough to make people invest in upgrades. Now to extend that issue to, say, an entire section of roof (or wall) not being insulated at all. You'd be hemorrhaging heat faster than you were producing it. To me that sounds like a waste of time.

p.s. want more heat? add more chickens! chicken math will rule the world

I am always amazed by the amount heat under a bird when I collect eggs! Yayyy for chicken math!!!

Speaking of hemorrhaging heat...when DH & I first moved into his grandparents' old house, we were driving up the road. I noticed all the roofs had snow on them EXCEPT ours. I said that's weird. DH went up to the teeny tiny attic to find NOT a stitch of insulation!! I said My parents 100 year farmhouse at least had newspaper in the walls. We did a little more investigating. NO INSULATION IN THE HOUSE AT ALL!

It was built in the 40's.

All the young Orloffs have died. Good new is that the remaining seven are looking fine, even the one with the bacterial infection is recovering well. Gosh I hope this is a trend.

I'm so sorry Ash! I hope the 7 remain well!

 

[lazy gardener]

Coop chick, the ideal is 6" of mulch. when straw was less than $5/bale, I used that b/c it was less seedy. I was concerned about the extra seeds in the hay causing a problem. In the last several years, the price of straw has gone through the roof, so I reluctantly switched to hay, and have found that the hay works great. I think there is more nutrition in hay, also the nutrition that is there is more diverse due to multiple types of plants. There is no problem with increased weeds b/c the hay is thick enough that they don't sprout. If they do, you just kick the stuff around a bit. I bought 20 bales of hay @ 2.50 ea, have spread 8, used about 9 for my hay bale cold frame, and have several bales held in reserve. In the spring, when the cold frame is no longer needed, I'll dismantle it and spread the rest of the hay. You can plant potatoes by laying them on top of the soil and covering with a generous layer of mulch. No need to bury the potatoes, though I do put them in a shallow trench, b/c I just like to do it that way. Some traditions are hard to break. No hilling involved with potatoes or corn. You'd be amazed at how active the worms are in a mulched garden. Because I don't have to worry about weeding, it's easier to grow some plants in blocks, especially potatoes and corn, When I harvest corn, after taking the ear off the plant, I knock the stock down, or use clippers to cut it into shorter sections.... to add to the mulch. Potatoes are grown in a 3 row wide bed, so I can (hopefully) reach the middle row to deal with potato bugs. And it's so easy to reach under the mulch to steal those new baby potatoes.

Re: heat and insulation: My brother used to have a business installing blown cellulose insulation in older buildings. It was easy to tell who was burning their pay checks for heat. If a house had icicles hanging off it, it was a candidate for some more insulation. It's interesting that you can actually drive down the road and see where peoples roof rafters are b/c the snow and frost will melt every where else first, leaving an outline of the rafters.

 

[buckabucka]

"When it comes to insulating, I really don't think it's worthwhile unless you're insulating the whole thing. I doubt it's worth the money, or even the effort, if you're not going to have the entire structure insulated. Think about your home: if you have poorly insulated windows/doors how much heat you lose just via those small gaps is often enough to make people invest in upgrades. Now to extend that issue to, say, an entire section of roof (or wall) not being insulated at all. You'd be hemorrhaging heat faster than you were producing it. To me that sounds like a waste of time. "

Yes, I realize this is mostly an exercise in futility. My hope is that it will take the edge off of the extremes. In the summer when the metal side faces the sun, it can heat up like a tin can. The shade does keep it cool, but hopefully it will reflect some of the heat back. In the winter, it will probably only help the birds that roost up in the ceiling. The added bonus is being able to store this roll of stuff up in the ceiling instead of in the garage!

Lazy gardener, I think I'd like your deep mulch gardening approach. We do mulch with grass clippings, and I used to just loosen the soil as opposed to tilling, but now that DH has a tractor he loves to till everything.