Making a new "breed" of chicken. Read inside please lol

[Spazzyyarn]

Thank you both! Katie will be joining tomorrow and commenting on some of her ideas. As a mother I truly appreciate this

 

[donrae]

BYC is a family friendly forum. Kiddos of all ages are welcome. We have quite a few younger folks. She'll need to read the rules, I think they're not allowed to discuss their age (for their protection, of course) and there may be some other things, but have her make her own account or post under yours. Whatever you're comfortable with.


Thinking about comb, skin color, etc. Silver laced Orpingtons come to mind. They have white skin, single combs (which are recessive to pea combs) and light brown eggs which should be easier to convert to the pure blue than a darker egg like the Barnies. But, they're also pretty darn rare. And, the body shape and feathering is about as opposite from an Ameraucana as one can get. Orps are big, rounded, fluffy, loose feathered. Ameraucana are smaller, more streamlined, not as hard feathered as say a Cornish but definitely more so than an Orp.

You sure you don't want to guide her toward something easier? Say peace in the Middle East

? Seriously, this is going to be a long road. Getting a laced Easter Egger wouldn't be as difficult, that could be just a few generations. But all the true Ameraucana characteristics are difficult. And lacing, as mentioned, is a complex pattern. Not as easy as say barring or mottled.

 

[junebuggena]

Right! The kid had to pick one of the hardest breeding projects, ever. There is a reason nobody has done laced Ameraucana yet. Lacing is hard. She would have an easier time of it by using Silver Ameraucana, but those are hard to come by. She could be sure of the proper base color, and she wouldn't have to fight the extended black genes.

 

[Spazzyyarn]

BYC is a family friendly forum. Kiddos of all ages are welcome. We have quite a few younger folks. She'll need to read the rules, I think they're not allowed to discuss their age (for their protection, of course) and there may be some other things, but have her make her own account or post under yours. Whatever you're comfortable with. 


Thinking about  comb, skin color, etc. Silver laced Orpingtons come to mind. They have white skin, single combs (which are recessive to pea combs) and light brown eggs which should be easier to convert to the pure blue than a darker egg like the Barnies. But, they're also pretty darn rare. And, the body shape and feathering is about as opposite from an Ameraucana as one can get. Orps are big, rounded, fluffy, loose feathered. Ameraucana are smaller, more streamlined, not as hard feathered as say a Cornish but definitely more so than an Orp. 

You sure you don't want to guide her toward something easier? Say peace in the Middle East  ?  Seriously, this is going to be a long road. Getting a laced Easter Egger wouldn't be as difficult, that could be just a few generations. But all the true Ameraucana characteristics are difficult. And lacing, as mentioned, is a complex pattern. Not as easy as say barring or mottled. 

I truly appreciate your comment! And it made me giggle but Katie is a determined young adult and I have faith in her. If its possible she will figure it out if not, she will adjust her goal. I can't tell you as a mom how much I appreciate ever single comment here, it has truly given her hope.

 

[Spazzyyarn]

Right! The kid had to pick one of the hardest breeding projects, ever. There is a reason nobody has done laced Ameraucana yet. Lacing is hard. She would have an easier time of it by using Silver Ameraucana, but those are hard to come by. She could be sure of the proper base color, and she wouldn't have to fight the extended black genes.

I have tried my hardest to guide her in this direction but she is determined. Lol I hope she can achieve it, and if not, that she can learn something and apply it to something amazing.

 

[junebuggena]

When choosing breeds for a project like this, she needs to keep in mind, each time she breeds something in, she will be increasing the amount of breeding and culling she will have to do. By choosing just two breeds as tb e foundation, she will be simplifying things as much as possible. By no means does that mean it will be quicker, just not quite such an uphill battle. Extended black birds can be hiding so much. SO MUCH! It is the most dominant pattern gene, and will hiding anything else. You just don't know what they are carrying. Silvers are one of the most recessive patterns. They hide nothing. A Silver Ameraucana rooster over Splash Barnevelder hens would provide a good foundation, and limit the amount of competing traits. All chicks would get a Blue gene and a silver gene. Then, she'd need to work on cleaning up the lacing and locking in the other traits. The key to linebreeding, is to have a bunch of hens of the foundation breeds, not just one or two. That way, even if the chicks all have the same father, the mother's are all different. This will give the initial gene pool, enough diversity to withstand linebreeding.

 

[Spazzyyarn]

When choosing breeds for a project like this, she needs to keep in mind, each time she breeds something in, she will be increasing the amount of breeding and culling she will have to do. By choosing just two breeds as tb e foundation, she will be simplifying things as much as possible. By no means does that mean it will be quicker, just not quite such an uphill battle. Extended black birds can be hiding so much. SO MUCH! It is the most dominant pattern gene, and will hiding anything else. You just don't know what they are carrying. Silvers are one of the most recessive patterns. They hide nothing. A Silver Ameraucana rooster over Splash Barnevelder hens would provide a good foundation, and limit the amount of competing traits. All chicks would get a Blue gene and a silver gene. Then, she'd need to work on cleaning up the lacing and locking in the other traits. The key to linebreeding, is to have a bunch of hens of the foundation breeds, not just one or two. That way, even if the chicks all have the same father, the mother's are all different. This will give the initial gene pool, enough diversity to withstand linebreeding.

This is wonderful advice and very similar to what she has revised!

 

[junebuggena]

I'm actually working on a similar project with Easter Eggers. I'm trying to develop a line that is based off this guy.

Red base color with the the Columbian pattern restrictor. Progress has been slow due to coyotes and bears...

 

[KatiePaige]

Hi! My name is Katie and my mom is the one that started this conversation.

Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions. I was under the impression that white skin was dominant over yellow, which is partly why I chose to start this project with a wynadotte. I am starting to rethink that now.

The pea comb vs rose comb worries me. I don't quite understand the genetics behind it. From what I have read they both can be dominant or recessive, depending on factors and something I may get a walnut comb? Is that correct?

To fix that I would have to remove anything comb wise that was incorrect, but wouldn't the genes still pop up randomly? How many generations am I looking at before it would be removed?

I like the look of the wynadotte lacing the best. But to complete the lacing I would have to breed back to the wynadotte correct?

Speaking of lacing, does anyone have a good place to research that? I have found limited information avaliable.

Also, what is speckled vs spangled?

Thanks y'all. And sorry for so many questions

 

[junebuggena]

Hi! My name is Katie and my mom is the one that started this conversation.

Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions. I was under the impression that white skin was dominant over yellow, which is partly why I chose to start this project with a wynadotte. I am starting to rethink that now. White is dominant over yellow. That's not the big issue of using Wyandottes.

The pea comb vs rose comb worries me. I don't quite understand the genetics behind it. From what I have read they both can be dominant or recessive, depending on factors and something I may get a walnut comb? Is that correct? This is the hard part. Rose comb and pea comb genes will fight each other. They are equally dominant. When both genes are present in a bird, the result is a cushion comb. So all your first generation crosses will be cushion combed.

To fix that I would have to remove anything comb wise that was incorrect, but wouldn't the genes still pop up randomly? How many generations am I looking at before it would be removed? If the comb is the only thing you are working on, you can easily remove the rose comb genes in about 2 generations. As long as you aren't breeding back to the Wyandotte and reintroducing it. Which is why I suggest using a Barnevelder instead. No competing comb type to worry about. All the first generation chicks will have pea combs. And if you breed back to the Barnevelder, about 25% of the chicks will still have the right comb. If you use the Wyandotte, none of the chicks would have the right comb type, at least not for a few generations. And you would be risking loosing it completely and having to breed back to the Ameraucana to get it back. But then you would have to work on the color all over agian. Viscious cycle.
I like the look of the wynadotte lacing the best. But to complete the lacing I would have to breed back to the wynadotte correct? To get the pattern genes right, as quickly as possible, yes, you will need to breed back to the parent stock. It's still doable with line breeding half-siblings, but will take more time. But you will be able to control the unwanted characteristics more easily.

Speaking of lacing, does anyone have a good place to research that? I have found limited information avaliable. This thread goes in depth on the lacing and spangling genes. https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/571407/genetics-of-spangling-and-lacing-for-dummies This site is an amazing rescource for studing the basics of chicken genetics. http://kippenjungle.nl/basisEN.htm

Also, what is speckled vs spangled? Speckling is the same as Mottling, and is recessive. Spangled is a dominant pattern.

Thanks y'all. And sorry for so many questions