Making Lemonade [Selective Culling Project - very long term]

[Solanacae]

I think that’s probably the way forward with what you have. This Ugly Boy may not be the prettiest rooster, but there’s a lot about him that I think would further your project - size, coloring, not the sire of the current generation - that makes him worth keeping. At least for now.

 

[Solanacae]

And, for what it’s worth, I don’t think Ugly Boy is THAT ugly, at least not from that one picture of him.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Looling back at him again, I think this male is safe for using. I dont think he's a dark blue. Let me grab my male real quick to show a dark blue

I think part of it is that yours has shkny feathers. My dark blue doesn't have any

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

I've got some birds that are clearly black on top (with the green sheen, in fact), but have fluffy blue-grey bottoms. I assumed that was the Blue Gene?

Here's Phoenix Blue from back in July - Has put on little weight since, still at 6#+
View attachment 2973426

and Big Barred at the same time. Big Barred was 5.6# then, he's got to be close to 8# now. Some of his (I think they were his) offspring have had the blue/grey rather than the darker black of his barring.

View attachment 2973428

I'll see if I can't find one of the black top, grey bottom birds and take a fresh photo.

I don’t think it is the classic blue gene… as you would not get black feathers on the head and then a different shade on the tail or rest of body feathers that should be black are effected but the head is different black like the hen pictured… I poked around and the only color gene I could find that could effect whole body, or just head, or just tail (thus meaning other genes modify it’s expression) was Dd aka Dark Brown… it effects the different E and e genes differently too… so I think from my very infantile understanding of genetics this might be the culprit color gene.

 

[NatJ]

I went looking for the male I had in mind - he has a lot of red on top, blue bottom, thinking he also had black on top - as do the other males of similar overall pattern. and NO, its definitely grey. I had "merged" bits of two in my mind.

That one does look blue to me. Yes, it can be hard to remember who had what details when you're dealing with a large number of chickens.

 

[NatJ]

I poked around and the only color gene I could find that could effect whole body, or just head, or just tail (thus meaning other genes modify it’s expression) was Dd aka Dark Brown… it effects the different E and e genes differently too… so I think from my very infantile understanding of genetics this might be the culprit color gene.

From what I've read, Db (aka Dark Brown) is a "columbian restrictor"-- meaning it restricts black in about the same way that Columbian does (changing where on the chicken the black goes, not changing what color the black is.)

I've also read that Db got named Dark Brown because it changed the color of the chick down in some crosses. (Black became dark brown in the chick down, but NOT in the feathers.)

One source for part of that:
http://kippenjungle.nl/sellers/page3.html
"Changes black down of E, ER to reddish-brown. Adults males exhibit a Columbian-type pattern of black, modifies red to orange-tan. Db is a better restrictor of black in males than females."

Another source:
http://kippenjungle.nl/breeds/crossbreeds.html
" Db => Dark brown, Name refers to chick down. Columbian-like restrictor of black, Less powerful on hens (patterned back). Co-causer of certain patterns, Acts even under birchen."
(To get this explanation, I set a chicken to have Db in the calculator, then clicked "explain phenotype" near the image of the chicken.)

 

[3KillerBs]

If he stays, Big Barred goes. Big Barred being also Brahma big, but no red/silver at all, has already sired many of the current generation.

That bolded part is, IMO, the best reason to replace a rooster -- unless he's very much what you want in your ongoing project and thus a candidate for linebreeding to fix excellence into the flock.

You can't make progress by continuing to breed from the same birds. Especially when the rooster has so much more influence in the flock's overall genetics.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Im so jealous of those red and blue boys you keep getting. I know theyre absolutely not what you want, but i wish i could steal them for my mixed group. I love the lithe, flighty looking ones for hawks around here

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Maybe I misunderstood what I was reading…

Man I wish we could DNA test the birds, as the difference in the black on some of those birds is weird… I have never had a partial blue expression of the blue gene in a bird here… there
has got to be some unique combo going on. I don’t think it is something like chocolate or dun either.

Mystery on this one, and sort of cool (even if it’s messing with breeding goals). Gorgeous birds btw… jealous too. Lol

 

[NatJ]

Man I wish we could DNA test the birds

Yes, that would be wonderful! It can get quite confusing to look at pictures of chickens, and comb through pages of genetics information, and TRY to make it match up right. I would love to have DNA tests for a bunch of genes, and then it would be easy to post photos of chickens with their DNA test results, and we could all learn what is going on with them!

I have never had a partial blue expression of the blue gene in a bird here…

I've seen photos of blue chickens that have black heads, and several shades of gray at different places on their bodies.

For example, McMurray's photos of Blue Andalusians show at least one hen with her head much darker than the rest of her plumage, and several photos of roosters that have heads & backs much darker than their breasts:
https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/blue_andalusians.html