Making New Dog Breeds

[mtnhomechick]

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I do not have any problem whatsoever with the DOGS. I have a problem with the way they're bred. If any breeder of "doodles" can show me genetic screening or even rudimentary health testing, certified by OFA, I will gladly hail them as a responsible breeder. The dogs themselves, are, of course, adorable and can be perfectly wonderful pets!

The widely-hailed and properly controlled Austrailian "Labradoodle" project has long been abandoned, being given up as a failure as far as producing what they set out to produce. The banner was taken up by opportunists who saw an "in" to make a quick buck, and they've been very successful.

I will fight tooth and nail for the right of any person to own whatever pet they like--you will NEVER find me bashing anyone for the type of pet they choose to own. Just do your homework, and try to choose from health/genetic-tested parents with publicly searchable records, if you're buying ANY dog from a breeder. That's all I'm sayin'.

We received health certificates on both parents plus their full pedigress. We have never had a health problem with Sadie ...She came to us with everything in order. We got her from a very responsible breeder. And yes some breeders irresponsible, I agree. But not all, right? That's why we searched that far. Same with any dog though.

The only health problem we had is with our poodle. But we adore him too.

Thanks for the advice though.

 

[ninjapoodles]

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I'm not talking about "health certification," but about OFA tests. But it's great that you got some health guarantees from the breeder! It's also fantastic that you have pedigrees on both sides, because with that information, you can search your girl's ancestry and find out what, if any, health issues have been screened for, tested, and/or recorded.

Just go to http://www.offa.org/ , search the parents' registered names, and any results that have ever been filed of record will show up! Neat, huh?

Here's an example--here's the results page on OFA for one of my retired champions .

 

[mtnhomechick]

I surely appreciate the link but now that she's been incorporated into our family it wouldn't matter. As I stated she's our family dog. That's all. We just love her. It's pretty simple.

 

[ninjapoodles]

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Oh, no, I wasn't suggesting otherwise! Sorry if it came across like that.

No, the reason for doing that kind of research is so that you know what to be on the lookout for, if possible. Kind of a "forewarned is forearmed" deal, you know? Odds are great that your darling will lead a long and healthy life, and I KNOW she'll be loved to pieces!

It's just good to know if, say, a parent or lateral relative was affected by a hip or eye problem, bloat, etc...then if a symptom crops up, you'll recognize it sooner.

Then again, all the health testing in the world is still no ironclad guarantee. I have an almost-10yo standard poodle whose breeder had the most incredible depth of testing and research you ever saw--we went back generations on both sides looking for potential trouble, even though she's just a spayed pet. We didn't find anything alarming, but a few years ago, one of her littermates bloated. Ever since then, we've really been watching Delta for any signs of bloat.

We're not Nervous Nellies about it, but since having a 1st-degree relative who's bloated is the #1 risk factor in determining a dog's liklihood to bloat, we're glad that we had access to that public knowledge. We have a bloat kit at the ready, and will take immediate action if ever she shows any of the classic symptoms of bloat. It could save her life.

mtnhomechick, I apologize for my mad rambling--I'm a bit of a lunatic on this subject. Sorry!

 

[kdcrws]

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She's adorable! But, your statement about her being "less likely to develop health problems," is, I'm afraid, incorrect. You see, Golden Retrievers and Standard Poodles actually SHARE several heritable health problems. So really, for many diseases, you've actually increased your chances of hitting the genetic jackpot.

That whole "healthier" line of...malarkey is one of the things that breaks my heart that the breeders of these dogs are doing. It's just plain not true, and they have ZERO evidence to show that it is. Especially since they're not doing the health/genetic testing on their parent stock (if I'm wrong, and your dog's parents have OFA-certified health/genetic test results online, then I sincerely apologize--I've just never run into any that did any health/DNA testing). It's like a crap-shoot (which, of course, genetics always is, but you can, at least, stack the deck in your favor if you have enough data).

You're lucky if you got a non-shedder. Another problem I have with the breeders of poodle crosses is their touting them as "non-shedding," which is almost never the case. Guys, here's an easy rule of thumb to tell if ANY dog, whether purebred, mix, or plain ol' shelter mutt is going to be a shedder:

If a dog's hair is always the same length, then it is SHEDDING. If a dog's hair grows longer and longer and longer when it's not being cut, then it is NOT SHEDDING, at least not in the traditional dog-shedding sense ("non-shedding" breeds actually do gradually shed hair, but they do it like people, and do not have an undercoat). Period. There's no two ways about it, and no "semi-shedding" breeds.

I hope that clears up any confusion. Seriously--I am all for everyone having the pet(s) that they love, no matter what they may be. But I can't stand when misinformation is spread, especially about health issues.

Peace!

I had a JRT for 9 yrs he was related to himself...His mother was also his sister and his dad was also his grandfather making him his own cousin. He had the worst skin allergies! I know now that terriers in gen are prone to skin problems but i feel that the so called line breeding made his that much worse. Cookie the mutt that she is has genetic diversity going for her.

 

[ninjapoodles]

Quote:
You're exactly right. That's why it is SO important to know your family of dogs, on both sides. Inbreeding/linebreeding can be a really useful tool in setting type and locking in desirable characteristics, and in many breeds the gene pool is so small that it can hardly be avoided.

BUT, what people need to be aware of is that, when line/inbreeding, you're not just doubling up on the GOOD traits, but BAD ones as well...many of which are "invisible" until you've done the doubling.

One of the most important things my dog mentor ever taught me was, "Every time you select FOR something, you're also selecting AGAINST something else, and vice-versa. And you may not find out what that is until it's too late to fix it."

YIKES.

 

[mtnhomechick]

Quote:
You're exactly right. That's why it is SO important to know your family of dogs, on both sides. Inbreeding/linebreeding can be a really useful tool in setting type and locking in desirable characteristics, and in many breeds the gene pool is so small that it can hardly be avoided.

BUT, what people need to be aware of is that, when line/inbreeding, you're not just doubling up on the GOOD traits, but BAD ones as well...many of which are "invisible" until you've done the doubling.

One of the most important things my dog mentor ever taught me was, "Every time you select FOR something, you're also selecting AGAINST something else, and vice-versa. And you may not find out what that is until it's too late to fix it."

YIKES.

 

[mtnhomechick]

Quote:
She's adorable! But, your statement about her being "less likely to develop health problems," is, I'm afraid, incorrect. You see, Golden Retrievers and Standard Poodles actually SHARE several heritable health problems. So really, for many diseases, you've actually increased your chances of hitting the genetic jackpot.

That whole "healthier" line of...malarkey is one of the things that breaks my heart that the breeders of these dogs are doing. It's just plain not true, and they have ZERO evidence to show that it is. Especially since they're not doing the health/genetic testing on their parent stock (if I'm wrong, and your dog's parents have OFA-certified health/genetic test results online, then I sincerely apologize--I've just never run into any that did any health/DNA testing). It's like a crap-shoot (which, of course, genetics always is, but you can, at least, stack the deck in your favor if you have enough data).

You're lucky if you got a non-shedder. Another problem I have with the breeders of poodle crosses is their touting them as "non-shedding," which is almost never the case. Guys, here's an easy rule of thumb to tell if ANY dog, whether purebred, mix, or plain ol' shelter mutt is going to be a shedder:

If a dog's hair is always the same length, then it is SHEDDING. If a dog's hair grows longer and longer and longer when it's not being cut, then it is NOT SHEDDING, at least not in the traditional dog-shedding sense ("non-shedding" breeds actually do gradually shed hair, but they do it like people, and do not have an undercoat). Period. There's no two ways about it, and no "semi-shedding" breeds.

I hope that clears up any confusion. Seriously--I am all for everyone having the pet(s) that they love, no matter what they may be. But I can't stand when misinformation is spread, especially about health issues.

Peace!

I had a JRT for 9 yrs he was related to himself...His mother was also his sister and his dad was also his grandfather making him his own cousin. He had the worst skin allergies! I know now that terriers in gen are prone to skin problems but i feel that the so called line breeding made his that much worse. Cookie the mutt that she is has genetic diversity going for her.

 

[mtnhomechick]

Well, sorry but I have an innapropriate yuck yuck up there ninja and darned if I can edit it.

 

[ninjapoodles]

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My whole LIFE is an "inappropriate yuck yuck."