Mama Heating Pad in the Brooder (Picture Heavy) - UPDATE

[COChix]

So I have one hen that has been determined to get into the brooder enclosure everyday since the chicks got moved outside. I often find her in the area, I am now leaving their dog kennel door open so they can run around their brooder set up. I have put this bird in with the chicks a couple times to see what she does. I am trying to assess her desire to be a mom or if she is just curious about their food and water. The first time I let her in she was going for food and water, so I pulled it. She didn't do much, didn't call the chicks to her either. They stayed clear that first time. The second time I let her in and didn't pull the food and water. Of course she ate and drank, but the chicks came up to her. They all just stared at each other. Yesterday, she got in, so I observed for a bit. She ate and drank, let the little chicks pick some food off her beak. She did try pecking at one on the head, twice while she was scratching around in their brooder, they ran up to see what the commotion was and she bopped them on the head. I have not let her stay in. I have never had a broody and given her chicks, only let a broody hatch. Can someone with more experience give me some tips on what I should be looking for to see if she might be a surrogate. Here was one thought, she doesn't seem overly mothering to them, meaning, she isn't calling them or doing the pecking at food and calling them. So I am leaning more towards she is just being mishevious and wants their food.

 

[ShrekDawg]

DE is the minuscule skeletons of little critters and it's all sharp edges. I don't use it. I used to. I believed in it so much that I could have been a DE salesman! I used to think that I was an enlightened and excellent chicken keeper because I put it down on the floor of the coop, in their nest boxes, and made a dust bath for them with plenty of DE added. MY babies weren't going to have mites or lice or any of those other pesky things. So one day I'm out there putting DE down after cleaning out nest boxes or some such, and I glance over at one the girls flopping in her dust bath. In the beam of sunlight I could see all this gray dust floating. Then I remembered that I was wearing a bandanna because DE made me cough something awful, even being careful not to just toss it around....besides, the back of the bag said to use respiratory protection when using DE. Um, wait a minute here. DUH, Diane!! The chickens' respiratory systems aren't as tough as mine in the first place, and no matter where they were in the coop or run they were kicking that fine powder up and inhaling it....and they inhaled lots of it in their nests or the dust bath. And, as Bee reminded me, if I wanted successful deep litter, why the heck was I putting DE down on it when its entire job is to kill some of the same critters I needed to help break down the litter. As far as feeding it to them to "get rid of worms" how is it supposed to do that? It goes in to the crop. Most worms live in the intestinal tract so by the time the now ground and wet DE gets to where they are it's totally worthless. There are plenty of DE advocates who swear by the stuff.....supposedly it can cure everything from hangnails to hemmorhoids. But I have never used it again. PDZ I do like. It's really good at absorbing odors and such. Every once in awhile I'll walk into the coop and detect that ammonia smell creeping in. So I can scatter a little PDZ to knock the smell down until I can go get my bags of goodies and get some of that added to bring things back in balance. DE and PDZ are two different products with 2 totally different uses. Now about the chicks sleeping on top and all around the heating pad. Remember that by just a couple of weeks old they wouldn't all fit under Mama Hen anymore anyway, so it's very natural for them to climb on top of her or tuck themselves in around her rather than going under her. I suppose you could well skip the cave part in the beginning, but I just won't. When they are tiny they need heat at their backs, not at their feet. Those they can tuck up under themselves to warm them. The purpose of the cave is to replicate Mom, and that includes giving them a warm, dark place not only to sleep, but to dash under for security if they get spooked. I know some folks just put the pad on the ground and let the chicks use it and that's fine for them. But when I see a broody hen lay on her back and the chicks sleeping on her tummy I'll reconsider!

Amen and amen, Blooie! In wanting healthy flocks, it's best to plan for the long term rather than the short term. If every single problem gets dusted with DE or antibiotics used on it, then you can calculate the life of your flock....it will be a short term flock. Short term solutions make for short term lives....sort of like suicide.

I think i have been way overusing DE, i put it down in the run whenever its muddy and toss it down in the coop when I clean the coop and nest box. It probably isn't good for them. And I don't exactly put little amounts down. I think I'll completely stop using it or severely limit it. It's probably only supposed to be like once a month or something if that, i feel like I'm constantly putting it down

 

[Beekissed]

So I have one hen that has been determined to get into the brooder enclosure everyday since the chicks got moved outside. I often find her in the area, I am now leaving their dog kennel door open so they can run around their brooder set up. I have put this bird in with the chicks a couple times to see what she does. I am trying to assess her desire to be a mom or if she is just curious about their food and water. The first time I let her in she was going for food and water, so I pulled it. She didn't do much, didn't call the chicks to her either. They stayed clear that first time. The second time I let her in and didn't pull the food and water. Of course she ate and drank, but the chicks came up to her. They all just stared at each other. Yesterday, she got in, so I observed for a bit. She ate and drank, let the little chicks pick some food off her beak. She did try pecking at one on the head, twice while she was scratching around in their brooder, they ran up to see what the commotion was and she bopped them on the head. I have not let her stay in. I have never had a broody and given her chicks, only let a broody hatch. Can someone with more experience give me some tips on what I should be looking for to see if she might be a surrogate. Here was one thought, she doesn't seem overly mothering to them, meaning, she isn't calling them or doing the pecking at food and calling them. So I am leaning more towards she is just being mishevious and wants their food.

I think you are right...she just wants a protected place to get food. Good chance she's down in the pecking order and doesn't get to eat without getting pecked, so looks for a place like the brooder in which to eat without interference.

If she was wanting to mother them, she'd call them to food. I've even had roosters that called chicks to food and tried to mother them. I've also had an old broody who tried to mother 4 mo. old birds that had been out on their own since 2 wks and didn't even want a mama....and she won them over by finding them food, calling them to food, giving them food from her beak, even.

That one is not a foster mama....

 

[Jensownzoo]

There are molds and there are molds...so many different kinds fit under that genre. Many are beneficial, some are toxic...most folks can't tell the difference. They can be a respiratory irritant, chronically or not. An antibiotic won't do squat against them and may well compromise the 'natural' immune system enough for other organisms to bloom to the point of unhealthfulness. Decades old pet peeve of mine to misapply and/or overuse antibiotics...in people or animals(pets and livestock). Balance of good foods and environment will keep the healthy healthy...the sickly won't survive, as it should be. My birds regularly have little 'sneezing attacks'...usually after eating or drinking too fast or while dust bathing. Only had one bird with some kind of respiratory problem, swollen sinus, gunky eye, sneezing..... ...was still fairly active so I didn't treat, she got over it within a week or so. Had slight re-occurance, but she recovered fully. She's gone now, was an older bird, culled for soup, that I got as an adult as my starter flock. Might she still have been carrying it, maybe...might the whole flock be carrying it, maybe...but everyone seems healthy so.... Early morning ponderings...just another perspective.

Wouldn't be giving an antibiotic if I thought it were a mold issue...but adding mold to an already compromised respiratory tract is just asking for a secondary fungal infection. And in cases of a viral infection? Won't treat the virus either...but they are especially vulnerable to secondary bacterial infections so it kinda keeps the chick's immune system from having to fight two things at once. I won't give antibiotics willy-nilly, but I'm also not going to watch an animal die if I can do something about it. She's actually doing a bit better this morning. Her voice is still a bit hoarse and there is a little mucus, but I can't feel the rales in her chest anymore. Normal droppings. On a bad note, one of the Polish seemed to be breathing harder and sneezing, so she got popped into the isolation cage too. Since have seen some benefit from the oxytetracycline, will keep both of them on it for the full course. I found one of my black Silkies in a different brooder dead...no previous symptoms. Stuck her in the fridge in case I need to ship her off tomorrow. I really wish I had already ordered Oxine...I could have put it in a humidifier for the room. Ah well. Will move the outdoor candidates to the garage today...if no symptoms in a few days, then they can join the chicks in the dog kennel.

 

[COChix]

I think you are right...she just wants a protected place to get food.  Good chance she's down in the pecking order and doesn't get to eat without getting pecked, so looks for a place like the brooder in which to eat without interference. 

If she was wanting to mother them, she'd call them to food.  I've even had roosters that called chicks to food and tried to mother them.  I've also had an old broody who tried to mother 4 mo. old birds that had been out on their own since 2 wks and didn't even want a mama....and she won them over by finding them food, calling them to food, giving them food from her beak, even. 

That one is not a foster mama.... 

Thanks Bee, kinda what my gut was telling me, just need some reinforcement. She is the trouble maker of the flock and the one that always wants me to pick her up and snuggle her. She was hand feed as a baby so she is super friendly, almost overbearing for me at times.

 

[Beekissed]

I think i have been way overusing DE, i put it down in the run whenever its muddy and toss it down in the coop when I clean the coop and nest box. It probably isn't good for them. And I don't exactly put little amounts down. I think I'll completely stop using it or severely limit it. It's probably only supposed to be like once a month or something if that, i feel like I'm constantly putting it down

I would say that's an accurate assessment. I'd say it's not supposed to be there at all. You can use lime for what you are using DE for...it will be cheaper and more effective and not quite as bad for their respiratory systems, though still not to be overused and spread around like one is making bread.

For a muddy run it's more effective to build some deep litter there...that's something that will preserve the integrity of the soil, keep it more healthy, and be more effective in curing a muddy run. It's also much cheaper and a more long term solution.

 

[ShrekDawg]

I would say that's an accurate assessment.  I'd say it's not supposed to be there at all.  You can use lime for what you are using DE for...it will be cheaper and more effective and not quite as bad for their respiratory systems, though still not to be overused and spread around like one is making bread. 

For a muddy run it's more effective to build some deep litter there...that's something that will preserve the integrity of the soil, keep it more healthy, and be more effective in curing a muddy run.  It's also much cheaper and a more long term solution. 

Yeah, I think I definitely need to stop. Unfortunately I went crazy and bought a 50 pound bag and a smaller bag a couple months ago now. Although I've been using it so willy nilly a lot is gone. But a lot is left still. But I am sure I can find another use for it or give it away.

Where does one find lime? At a hardware store? I was worried it was chemicals or something but it's not, right? Don't know why I thought it was.

In the new run I am hopefully going to be using deep litter. I probably could with this run but I figure it's too late now? For a while I was putting pine shavings down in it and I frequently toss them clumps of dirt so right now it's mostly top soil and sand mixed (it was in one spot for dust bathing but the rain mixed it), and pine shavings in layers beneath that. The front of the run is a foot higher. Is it possible to add deep litter to that? I had thought it had to be bare dirt. Plus the copious amounts of DE I had been using.

But the new run will be bigger and bare dirt so I am definitely going to use deep litter there. The coop I like pine shavings on the floor and don't mind cleaning it but I will stop using DE inside and won't use it in the new coop. Plus the new one I'm hopefully making a droppings board or tray so it won't get messy as fast. The coop I'm copying just used the roof rafters for roosts but I don't really like that so will add a roost.

But yeah.

The DE is a problem. I realized the other day that I'm probably going to wind up making them sick. Just killing everything and figure it's the same as me washing my hands way too much, not letting them encounter any germs or anything

 

[Beekissed]

Sell that bag of DE....somewhere out there is someone who thinks it will be beneficial to their animals and will pay for it.

Sweet lime can be found at most garden centers, like Lowe's. There's a difference between regular garden lime and caustic lime, so pay attention when you buy...the caustic lime is just that and shouldn't be used around humans or animals at all, if it can be avoided. Sweet lime is regularly used on gardens and compost piles to "sweeten" the pH of the mix.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lime_(material)

You won't need it at all if you just incorporate a good deep litter system in your run where the addition of new materials will absorb excess moisture and the depth of the litter can trap moisture in the bottom layers while wicking it away from the topmost layers, making for clean and healthy footing for your birds. It's never too late to start a deep litter system in your run....I'd get started on it today. Though, I will tell you this...folks who have used DE on their litter will often find a "dead" layer there where nothing much is happening in the way of composting, bug life, etc. But, you can compost right on top of that dead layer and eventually it won't matter at all.

 

[OrganicFarmWife]

We use DE alot in our grain bins. So if you have a local farmer they would happily buy it. It is also used by some cattle farmers, they use it to dust the cows when fly season gets really bad (we do not, because it only lasts until it rains)
I personally do use it in the birds "winter coup" it is the barn with the cement floor. I put it under the straw. But everyone is correct DE is terrible if breathed in. Even with the mask DH wears, it still leaves him with a horrid cough for a couple days after sweeping the bins.

 

[Beekissed]

Just none of my business....sorry.